In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Heidi Brown discuss:

  • Overcoming stress, fear, and anxiety. 
  • Introversion, shyness, and social anxiety…and how they are not the same. 
  • Learning to speak for what you need for processing and energy replenishment. 
  • Flourishing in your character strengths. 


Key Takeaways:

  • Introverts process internally, extroverts process externally. Neither is better, neither is more engaged, neither is a better student or employee, they just think differently. 
  • Authentically embrace who you are. You do not need to pretend to be someone else or a different personality type in order to do your job effectively and brilliantly. 
  • If you have anxiety around performances, you may be overpreparing. Consider tweaking your preparation process to figure out what works for you without getting in your own way. 
  • Find the things that energize and revitalize you and focus on those as much as you can. 


“What it means to flourish as a human being, or as a lawyer, is to set up systems that help you function well, even when you hit stress and anxiety. It’s not pretending stress, anxiety, and fear don’t exist, but instead knowing that our jobs are hard and our lives are hard we’re going to encounter them.” —  Heidi Brown


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About Heidi Brown: Professor Heidi K. Brown is a graduate of The University of Virginia School of Law, Associate Dean for Upper-Level Writing at New York Law School, and a former litigator in the construction industry. Heidi is the author of three books about well-being for law students and lawyers, including The Introverted Lawyer, Untangling Fear in Lawyering, and The Flourishing Lawyer: A Multi-Dimensional Approach to Performance and Well-Being. In 2021, Heidi earned a master’s degree in Applied Positive Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania. She is the 2023 Recipient of the Award for Outstanding Contributions to Well-Being in Legal Education from the Association of American Law Schools’ (AALS) Section on Balance and Well-Being in Legal Education. Building on a foundation of thirty years of experience in legal practice and academia, Heidi champions the importance of openly discussing stressors, anxieties, and fears in lawyering, and helping quiet and anxious law students and lawyers tap into individual strengths to become profoundly effective advocates—in their authentic voices. Heidi resides in New York City. She loves writing books, traveling solo internationally, taking boxing lessons, and jumping up-and-down at U2 concerts around the world. Heidi’s website is


Connect with Heidi Brown:  









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Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911



Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie


Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

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