Julia Hensel: Unlocking Law Firm Success Through Smart Website Optimization

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Julia Hensel discuss:

• The critical role of SEO in driving law firm growth
• Adapting to Google’s shifting algorithms for visibility
• Mobile optimization as a key factor for conversions
• Leveraging local search strategies for competitive legal markets

Key Takeaways:

• Law firms with strong reputations and histories are ideal candidates for SEO, but smaller-budget firms in large geographies should explore alternative marketing strategies.
• Google’s recent algorithm updates focus on “helpful content” written for people rather than content optimized purely for search, impacting firms using mass-generated or AI-driven content strategies.
• Many legal websites fail to optimize for mobile, with critical features like inquiry forms often buried at the bottom of pages, significantly reducing conversions.
• Local Service Ads (LSAs) operate on a pay-per-lead model and require proper tracking and optimization to ensure ROI, particularly in competitive markets.

“Google looks for expertise, experience, authoritativeness, and trust. If you are a firm with strong results, with many different cases you can speak to on your site, you’re able to prove a lot of those elements, and SEO will be a really strong fit for you.” —  Julia Hensel

Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at steve@fretzin.com with your toughest question, and I’ll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

Made to Stick: Why Some Ideas Survive and Others Die by Chip Heath and Dan Heath: https://www.amazon.com/Made-Stick-Ideas-Survive-Others/dp/1400064287

About Julia Hensel: Julia Hensel is the CEO of Lexigate, an SEO agency that services law firms. In her role at Lexigate, Julia oversees the agency’s work across website development, content creation, on-page optimization, link building, local strategies, and more. Lexigate focuses on driving measurable growth in signed cases and guarantees an increase in the first year of working together—or will work for free until targeted results are achieved.

Connect with Julia Hensel:  

Website: https://lexigate.com/

Email: julia.hensel@lexigate.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliawittrockhensel/ & https://linkedin.com/company/lexigate

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexigateagency

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexigate_com/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Steve Fretzin: [00:00:00] Hey everybody, before we get to the interview, want to take a moment to do our Q and A for the show. This is from Teresita in San Jose. And she’s asking, I’m busier than I’ve ever been. How do I scale when I can’t even get home to my kids? That sounds a lot like a delegation issue. You know, my question to you would be, you know, not answering your question.

I’m putting a question back on you Teresita. And it’s, you know, what are you doing that you should not be doing? So do you have a bookkeeper? Do you have an administrator? Administrative assistant? Do you have a paralegal? Do you have an associate? You know, how much of the administrative burden are you putting on yourself?

Or are you billing too many hours and not delegating down? So, I know there’s a lot to unpack there, but ultimately if you’re busier than you’ve ever been and you don’t have a good system for delegating and for automating and bringing in technology, that’s probably what’s going on here. I’d probably need more information on top of that.

So you guys can email me your questions at steve at Fretzin. com or Teresita. If you want more information, you can reach out to me happy to get on a phone and chat with you. That’s a quick answer, but hopefully helpful. Enjoy the show. [00:01:00] Everybody

Narrator: you’re listening to be that lawyer life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice Each episode your host author and lawyer coach steve Fretzin We’ll take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results Now here’s your host steve Fretzin

Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody, welcome back to the be that lawyer with me Fretzin podcast.

We are here for you every single week, twice a week. As you know, I love talking technology, but the part of technology that interests me most are websites. I’ve been fascinated by websites. I’ve been in business over 20 years. I’ve had, I don’t know, dozens of websites at this point for multiple businesses and such.

And it’s just so interesting how things evolve. And I really want to give you all a taste of that today with my guest, Julia. How you doing, Julia? Yeah.

Julia Hensel: Doing well. Thanks for having me.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. I’m so happy that you’re [00:02:00] here and you were proactive and reaching out to me and taking me to lunch, which never happened.

So I was really thrilled to get treated to lunch. And we had such a lovely conversation and I immediately wanted to put you on the podcast and have you share your wisdom in SEO and websites and conversion and like how lawyers really should be thinking about. How they’re going to get business through the internet.

So of course we can’t get into that until we do our quote of the show. And this is one of my favorites. Peter Drucker is just brilliant. And what gets measured gets managed. And I think that’s in particularly interesting to lawyers because Most lawyers aren’t managing anything. I mean, they are managing, they’re not measuring anything.

And so it’s very hard to know what’s going to, what needs to be changed and updated. Like even my clients, I have them fill out what are called activities journals that give me all of their activity. How are they converting to business? How are they converting to next steps? Things like that. And we measure that and we look at that and we really try to.

Anyway, I’m blabbing on, but welcome to the show and tell me why you love that quote. [00:03:00]

Julia Hensel: Yes. I love this quote, not just because I’m a business nerd and I feel like Peter Drucker is such an icon, but you have to pick it. But also because I thought it would really help set the tone for our conversation today because I think measurement is something that is particularly important in SEO.

We see so many times, there’s a lot of talk about, you know, XCO being used as a way to get people to your website. Which we think is important, but ultimately what we’re here for is to bring more signed cases. And so I love firms that are really looking at what is our bottom line as far as new signed cases we’re getting every month and where are we getting those from and then making sure to use all the tools in the toolkit to help them get there.

Steve Fretzin: So you have search engine optimization that gets the leads in the door. They fill out the form. They converted on your website or landing page. And then also don’t forget everybody you have intake, right? You have to then speak with them and how you run that meeting and how you run that call could be a critical factor to conversion.

So there’s a lot of different things working, but again, it doesn’t happen without [00:04:00] for many law firms and lawyers without that website and without having that search engine optimized. So let’s take a step back before we go forward and tell us a little bit about your background and how you became the CEO of Lexigate.

Julia Hensel: Yeah, certainly. So yeah, I’m Julia, CEO of LexiGate, came into the business actually this summer after a stint in strategy consulting. So really try to take a strategic lens to our clients problems, thinking holistically about how are they going to get more signed cases and all the different business and marketing lovers that can help them get there.

So at LexiGate, I oversee our work across 30 clients primarily in the legal industry. And our specific focus is on search engine optimization, but we really take a broad lens to that, thinking about all the different ways you can be first in the search results, not just in like your traditional organic results, but things like Local service ads and ranking in the map pack, kind of taking a holistic view of being where the searcher’s eyes now are in Google.

Steve Fretzin: [00:05:00] Well, and it’s important that, that people really take this information seriously because we don’t think, we just think a website is something that we put up just so that we have something there. It’s like a placeholder. But in reality, there’s so much more that it can do from a standpoint of business, from a standpoint of recruiting, from a standpoint of your brand and how people feel about you internally and externally.

So let’s start at the beginning and talk a little bit about there’s, you know, why, why law firms need SEO? Like is it, first of all, is it for everyone? And if so, like, why do they need it?

Julia Hensel: Yeah, there’s a lot of different approaches firms can take to getting new signed cases. But I think for many firms, SEO is a good fit for them if they have lots of strong results already built up that give them the credibility such that they deserve to be ranking.

I think what we think about when we think about the ideal SEO candidate. is a firm that has a fair number of lawyers, has a lot of victories [00:06:00] under their belt, and kind of will easily prove out the things that Google’s looking for. So many of you may be a part of the Google EEAT algorithm, which is that Google looks for expertise, experience, authoritativeness, and trust.

And so if you are a firm with strong results, with many different cases you can speak to on your site, you’re able to prove out a lot of those elements and SEO. Will be a really strong fit for you. That’s not to say that newer lawyers can’t use it as well, but those is certainly a home run if you already have a lot of those elements in the bag.

Steve Fretzin: And who is like SEO not good for like someone that should just should not make an investment in any way, shape, or form and trying to get to the top of Google through SEO. Natural means.

Julia Hensel: Yeah, there’s a couple that we would maybe shy away from. Like if you are a smaller budget firm in a large geography, like if someone came to me and they said, you know, I have 1, 000 and I want to rank in personal injury lawyer Los Angeles, right?

I would

Steve Fretzin: [00:07:00] say,

Julia Hensel: right. And we consult their clients on that because we want to make sure they have a good ROI. So that’s one’s there, that’s not going to be a good, good for you. I, I try a different kind of referral strategy or something else that might be lower budget.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. In search engine optimization is ranking naturally versus pay per click, which is where you pay to get to the top and you have to pay the more you pay, the more likely you are to get to the top and search engine optimization is happening more naturally.

And you mentioned. A bunch of reasons why that would happen, but it isn’t something that happens naturally from a standpoint of, Oh, I am trustworthy and I do have great results. That doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m going to be at the top of Google. That’s why people hire you.

Julia Hensel: Exactly. Yeah. There’s often a disconnect and we actually look at, at some of this data of what are the firms that we think deserve to be ranking based on their experiences, their history, amount of time in business, but aren’t.

And there’s quite a few where there is a major disconnect there because there’s a significant amount of effort that comes. Or that is required to show all the expertise that you [00:08:00] have to build out really strong pages for your practice areas that are extremely searcher centric and user centric that will rank and that will convert and bring in signed cases.

Google is not, you know, God, it cannot just automatically reward from above the perfect firm. It needs all the indicators on your site to show it that you deserve to rank and that’s where we come in.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And that’s the industry that has been kicking butt for so many years because. There are so many great firms who, you know, they’re like a best kept secret because they aren’t set up on their website and on Google in a way that’s going to be productive.

So really great there. Let’s talk about the Google algorithm for a minute, because my problem is that it seems like it’s changing a lot. And then it’s like, so you can do all this great stuff. And then it’s like, Oh, they changed the algorithm. And I think there’s some people who get it and can move with the flow and of the wind or whatever.

And there’s other people like, well, now that I can’t, you know, then they’re stuck. Yeah.

Julia Hensel: Yeah, this is [00:09:00] definitely a hot topic right now and something we’ve been advising a lot of our clients on because there’s actually an algorithm update underway right now. It’s Google’s third update of the year. Many of the updates this year have been on a common theme, which is around helpful content, which essentially means content in Google’s words written by people for people and content that’s written to improve.

The user experience and not just content that’s made for search. So I think in the past, On Desire to Rank Well, which I love, many companies have kind of started throwing out a lot of content. And with AI, it’s made this easier and easier to just get a lot of content out the door so you can have a personal injury page for every single city in your state and try and rank in as many places as you can.

But where Google is coming down hard is making sure that the content is truly excellent and useful for users. And so that’s a thing that we’re excited about, right? Because we [00:10:00] specialize in writing content. So it should be improving our clients results. But I know some firms that have taken a little bit more of like a mass content approach have been struggling with.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And the other piece of it is, and I’m, you know, I don’t know what the factor is for backlinks, like where I’m being, so for example, I’m on above the law, if you guys didn’t know, I’m on above the law every month with my articles and assuming that they’re linking back to my website with my information and all that, and they’re very credible, reputable, right?

So yeah, our backlinks like that and others, is that one of the algorithm pieces that’s still a factor?

Julia Hensel: Yes, backlinks are an important ranking factor. They improve the perceived authority of your site. That’s actually been something that’s been interesting because the approach that some SEO agencies take in getting backlinks is by putting links to your site on guest blogs, on websites that have a lot of mass generated content.

And so those types of sites, [00:11:00] I’ve been hit with these latest Google algorithm updates that say content needs to be helpful. And then if the sites where the link is coming from are not as strong because they’ve been hit with these algorithm updates, then that can decrease your site success as well. So it’s something we’re definitely keeping an eye on for our client.

Steve Fretzin: So there’s the, you know, broader SEO on Google, and then there’s things that people that want to work more locally and regionally local service ads, talk a little bit about like to find that, what are they, and then how are they changing, like, what do people need to think about with their local. Post and what are you like, what is people don’t even realize like what a three pack is and all that.

It’s like jargon to a lot of attorneys. Yeah.

Julia Hensel: So maybe just backing up this stuff. If you type in today, personal injury lawyer, Houston, what you are going to get on the screen is maybe a little different than what people are historically used to. So historically you’re used to in Google, you know, you have at the top, your little sponsored ads and then your traditional organic results that are just like a business link and some information [00:12:00] below it.

But today, there’s a lot more fun and complexity going on at the top of Google search. So, one of the things that is often showing up at the top of Google search today, if you Google, again, like, personal injury lawyer Houston, would be what’s called a local services ad. which is an ad that is for businesses that are verified.

So if you’re a lawyer and you want to run a local services ad, you can create a local services account and be verified by Google through a background check, and they might check some of the, you know, your license and other things, and then you will be able to show up at the top of Google. And the model for this is, is actually a pay per lead model, not a pay per click model like traditional advertising is.

So we see that this works really well for a lot of our clients because they’re only paying if someone calls, and it’s a way to be seen at the very top of Google.

Steve Fretzin: And how do they know when a call, I mean, the firm knows when a call comes in, [00:13:00] how does Google know, or how do you know that a call comes in?

Julia Hensel: Yeah, so Google actually masks your number with a tracking number, and so they’re kind of calling Google, which then goes to you, and most of our clients have a software called CallRail set up, which helps them track where the call is coming from. So you’re like three numbers deep by the time it gets to your actual phone number it’s going to, plus all that enables a lot of tracking.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And that way, you know, where the business is coming from, which is that goes to the original statement or quota from Drucker about measuring.

Julia Hensel: It’s managed. Right. Yeah. And this is something that honestly our clients need to keep a very close look on ROI because it does run the gamut and LSAs can become very expensive, especially in very competitive geographies.

So, it’s something, there, and there is a level of randomness to it as far as the cost and it can fluctuate wildly over months. And so, we keep a really close eye on this because we don’t want it to get out of hand for a client.

Steve Fretzin: With proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that [00:14:00] drive actual clients to your firm, Rankings.

io prides itself on proof, not promises mentality. The best firms hire Rankings. io when they want rankings traffic in cases other law firm marketing agencies can’t deliver. Get more rankings, get cases, and schedule a free consultation at Rankings. io today. Hey everybody, Steve Fretzin here. Man, I thought I was a good marketer, but maybe not.

Lawyers have been approaching me asking, what’s the Rainmakers Roundtable? Well, I tell them this is a special place created exclusively for rainmaking lawyers to continue their journey of prosperity. Our program is unique as every member has A significant book of business and is motivated to grow it year after year.

Where else does this exist? If you’re a managing partner, who’s looking to get off your lonely Island and talk shop with America’s top rainmakers, please go to my website, Fretzin. com and apply for membership today. Really good. So one thing that’s been a troubling part for me and my website [00:15:00] over the years, and I think for others is, all right, you can invest in SEO and you can get to the top of Google and then people get to your website, right?

And they look at your website, they spend time on your website and then they just go, you know, they just lose interest or they go away or like, what are things that lawyers should be putting on their website to drive conversions? Cause ultimately to your point earlier, that’s what it’s all about. We can get a hundred people to the site if we can’t convert them.

Then then what’s it all worth

Julia Hensel: then? Yeah, this is honestly something we dive maybe a little deeper in than other SEO firms because we actually guarantee our clients more signed cases that we want to make sure we’re bringing you signed cases. The website’s also kind of set up to convert them, and so this is something we look at a lot, especially on what we call your transactional accounts.

practice area pages, which is what we focus on the most, the pages that are built out for each of your practice areas. And one thing we noticed with a lot of clients is they don’t necessarily have enough conversion mechanisms, or we call them calls to action, like places where [00:16:00] you can take action on your practice area pages if you want to submit an inquiry for your case.

A place where I especially see this problem is on mobile devices. So I would encourage all your listeners just to open up your practice area pages on a cell phone and start scrolling through and if you were a person reading that content and wanted to get in touch with the firm, do you have a place where you can do that?

Because I think that’s a place where we often see firms being less than optimized.

Steve Fretzin: Well, yeah. And like what percent of people online are using a phone and the phones that aren’t set up for that conversion from website, big screen and mobile, you’re losing all that opportunity because I’m not going to spend a lot of time wasted if I don’t see a button.

Julia Hensel: 100%. Yep. We see that a lot. And you often see on a lot of lawyers websites, when you look at it on a desktop, on the left hand side, there’s content and on the right hand side, there’s this nice, like submit your inquiry. Box, but when you flip that into mobile, [00:17:00] what happens for most websites is that submit your inquiry, it’s pushed all the way to the bottom below your content.

And so users might have to scroll for, you know, 15 minutes before they’re getting into your submitted inquiry. And so that’s just a quick win to put that more accessible.

Steve Fretzin: Gotcha. And then the other thing I used to do, and I don’t do any more of those popups. Like I’ve had live chat on my website. I’ve had popups where.

It’s a bot, but it says, Hey, how can we help you today? And what’s up and down with that?

Julia Hensel: Yeah, in general, we recommend that most of our clients do have a little bot in the right hand corner. Typically now we’re seeing a lot with their video to make it very personal as well, like the actual lawyer kind of speaking to you, I care about you and your case.

So we do like that touch and it makes it easier. I also see a lot of our clients websites now have a little pop up that will come up after you’ve been on their screen for a minute or so that says, do you have a legal matter we can help you with? And that also kind of forces them [00:18:00] to, if there is something they’re interested in, take action on that and share some details.

Steve Fretzin: Okay. I want to go back to something that we were talking about earlier, just content. So I’m creating a tremendous amount of content. I’ve got the podcast, I’ve got articles, I’ve got transcriptions of podcasts, I’ve got articles of podcasts, I’ve got videos, I’ve got all this stuff. And I’m not saying my SEO is good or bad.

You can probably determine that better than anybody, but is it fully optimized? And how do I know as a lawyer listening that their content is optimized? How do they do that? What’s the steps?

Julia Hensel: Yeah, so I mean, first, to the point of what gets measured gets managed I would look at your volume you’re getting to your transactional pages.

So that’s what we Meaning volume,

Steve Fretzin: meaning how many people are coming to that page. Yeah,

Julia Hensel: how many people are coming to that page. And they are coming to that page from Googling different keywords like personal injury lawyer, like car accident lawyer, etc. And so then you want to look at what is your [00:19:00] position on each of those keywords that would bring someone to one of your practice area pages.

So, our goal is always to have clients in the top three positions for the key transactional search terms in their geography. So those are the key signs of health. And then the next question becomes, if you’re not ranking on those search terms, what can you do to improve your content to get there? Have me go there if you’d like, but.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. What are also some missteps like people that are creating content through AI and things that maybe Google isn’t going to like a lot? Yeah. Yeah.

Julia Hensel: Yeah, certainly. Well, what we see a lot is content that is built to rank, but not necessarily helpful for the user. So let me give you an example. I see this a lot on car accident pages, like a car accident.

practice area page. I see a lot of content about things like top causes of car accidents or top car accident injuries as content on the page. But let’s just take a step back and put [00:20:00] yourself in the searcher’s shoes. The searcher who got to this page has just googled car accident lawyer and then they got brought to a page and that page has information on Why you get into a car accident and the reasons for a car accident, right?

Like they are, unfortunately, incredibly familiar with the reasons for a car accident. You don’t need to tell them about the reasons for a car accident, that your target client is someone who’s already been in an accident. And so you can skip past all that. The content that they need right now that they’re really seeking out that you can help them on are things like.

What is the statute of limitations? How do I know if I have a case? How can a lawyer be helpful to me? What does the legal process look like? What timeline can I expect? Those are the types of things that someone who is a motivated person seeking a lawyer, aka your ideal client, needs to know. And so we suggest that you kind of start there and go from there.

Steve Fretzin: Okay. Yeah. Really good advice. So I think, you know, what we’re putting together is a picture of what a healthy website [00:21:00] looks like, how you can be found on Google, things help to convert. And then what are like some of the worst things you’ve seen? Like is like, you’ve looked at a lot of websites and you just see just a disaster.

Like, what are, what are like kind of the top things that people might go? I think that’s me. Like I see websites that are easily 10 years old, maybe 15 years old. It’s that stripped down the middle of the screen. And like, you know, just, they don’t, they clearly don’t care. They just, and maybe they’re even getting a lot of business, not from the website.

But. What are some of the worst things you’ve seen?

Julia Hensel: Yeah, I mean one of the worst things that is just kind of foundational is having a website built on a platform that would be difficult to rank. So 90 percent of our clients are using WordPress, but a lot of people have something built on, I don’t know, some like GoDaddy sites or Google sites or some like super easy to spin up website generator.

That is just going to be a deal breaker most likely as far as ability to rank. So that’s one no no that we see. We see a lot of really thin content, like just practice area [00:22:00] pages with like a sentence or two and then information about the firm, but not user helpful content. So that’s the second thing that we see.

And then I think UX, like just the visuals on the page, is also very important, like is this something Because i think when people go to a website they are wondering if this is a company they can trust right and i think the level of effort put into having a really nice looking site is important for giving that signal.

Steve Fretzin: Well you just brought up something interesting too that i want to ping like what should a good seo firm. Be asking you, what should, should you as a lawyer be asking them and what should the deliverable be like, how do you know, like you’re dealing with a reputable, because a lot of people get burned and they get, they feel bad about it and then they don’t trust easily.

What are the things that should be happening in like the initial meeting, whether it’s questions, lawyers should be asking or what they should be hearing as far as like what, like you guarantee results. Okay. Well, that is [00:23:00] intriguing. I have more questions about that, but like what, like help me on both sides of that, of that picture.

Julia Hensel: Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing starts with the data you go through. So I would always suggest going through all firms kind of as table stakes should be taking you through your keyword growth and your growth and impressions, basically number of eyeballs on your sites. So like giving you an

Steve Fretzin: audit, like an audit of what your site currently is.

Letting you

Julia Hensel: know, yeah. Are you bringing more people to your site and are you growing the number of search terms that you’re ranking for? That’s what I mean by keywords. That’s kind of like table stakes, but I think the next things that you should be asking for. is understanding what specific keywords am I ranking on, right?

Because sometimes if you are working with a less reputable SEO agency, they will just start putting up blog posts on topics that are just popular, you know, things to do in Houston, right? Things that don’t have anything to do with getting legal clients, just to be bringing more eyeballs to your site. So making sure it’s clear, Which search terms are you getting more traffic from?

[00:24:00] Which pages are getting traffic? And how is the traffic specifically to your practice area pages changing? And then I would push them to look at the bottom line. So we show our client’s leads, wanted leads, and signups. From organic traffic and I think that’s a really clear way to see is this moving the needle for the outcomes of matter to me and am I getting an ROI

Steve Fretzin: in what’s the ongoing deliverable that lawyers should be asking for because it’s like there’s alright you’re going to do my SEO I’m paying you X amount a month.

And we just let it ride and hope for the best, right? But that’s not the way it should be, right? I’m sure that’s not the way you do it. So what should I begin expecting then on a weekly basis, monthly basis? Like what should I be seeing from a reputable agency?

Julia Hensel: Yeah, so we break it down into four different pillars.

First content, you should be getting regularly either new or revamped content [00:25:00] from your agency on pages that are important for bringing in motivated customers. So not just blog posts, I’m talking new practice area pages, revised practice area pages, etc. So content is the first thing you should get every month.

The second thing you should get every month is technical support. So they should be doing a audit of your site health regularly, making sure you’re not generating error messages or your site is loading slowly. So that’s the second thing they should provide. The third is links that you brought up earlier.

They should be delivering strong quality reputable links and your question what you should ask for, you should ask them what links they got you and like from what sites so that you have visibility and transparency into that. And are these reputable companies that they’re getting links from or is it some link farm in like Indonesia or something?

So that’s a third thing you should be getting at all times. And then the fourth thing is local SEO. So support for your local service ads that we talked about. If you’re running those, regular updates [00:26:00] to your Google business profile, which is the little snippet of your business that shows up on Google Map.

They should be regularly updating that, adding new posts, because as Google sees that you care about your Google business profile that’s an important signal to send more people to it and rank that. So those are kind of the four things I would look for.

Steve Fretzin: Well, really great. And again, what I’m loving about this interview is we’re getting into the weeds about what’s important on a website.

What’s important for conversion. What do you need to ask and make sure you’re getting from your current organization, because there’s a many of them out there and I’m not going to name names that just, again, they get your money and. They’re not getting you any real traction and they just let it ride as long as you’re allowing them to pay.

And, you know, and then, Oh, well, the Google algorithm changed and now you’re back to square one. It’s like, well, what happened to my 20 grand? That’s not, I’m never going to get back. So really great. So let’s wrap it up with our game changing book made to stick. I don’t think I’ve heard that before. That’s a, but that’s a [00:27:00] chip and Dan Heath

Julia Hensel: and Dan Heath.

Yes. I’m a big fan. They have very entertaining reads. Like I mentioned, I’m a business nerd, so my husband and I actually, in college, reached out to all the Fortune 500 CEOs. I don’t know if I’ve told you this story. No,

Steve Fretzin: you never told me this story. We reached

Julia Hensel: out to all 500 of the Fortune 500 CEOs and asked them for a book recommendation.

And we heard back from 150 of them. Oh

Steve Fretzin: my god, that’s amazing. It’s

Julia Hensel: amazing. So anyway, we read the top 50 books and then, like, created a little summary of our own. But anyway, so all that to say, I love business books, so glad you had this question. But one of my favorite ones that I read is Made to Stick, or really anything by Chip and Dan Heath.

They also have Switch. As well, they’re kind of at the intersection of business and psychology, and I just find that fascinating. And I also think it’s relevant to the legal niche because, you know, whether it’s your clients or a jury or even your own employees, right? Behavior change is an important part of life and influences important part of life.

So as a recommend. [00:28:00]

Steve Fretzin: Awesome. Well let’s wrap up with thanking our wonderful sponsors, of course, LawHer. That’s a podcast you should get on. I’ll, we’ll figure that out, but you know, that’s all about helping women live their best lawyer live and get ahead. And Sonia brings on some really, truly amazing guest speakers and interviews on that.

And of course, Rankings IO and our friend, Chris Dreyer, who I introduced you to who’s helping personal injury firms around the country bring in that business. So shout out to Chris. And Julia, if people want to get in touch with you, they want to learn more about LexiGate and your guarantee and how you work, I mean, everything you laid out today really makes a lot of sense.

What are the best digits for them to reach you?

Julia Hensel: Yeah. LexiGate. com is our website, or they can reach me at Julia. Hensel, H E N S E L at LexiGate. com.

Steve Fretzin: Very good. Well, thank you for being on the show and sharing your wisdom. And I mean, I feel like in 30 minutes, we really covered a lot of ground that is going to be very helpful to lawyers who.

Either don’t have any experience doing this or maybe you have a lot of experience doing this and have felt a little raw about it, but either way, this was lovely. Thank you [00:29:00] so much.

Julia Hensel: Yeah. Hope it’s helpful.

Steve Fretzin: Yes, it was. And thank you everybody for spending time with Julia today with me on the Be That Lawyer with Fretzin podcast.

We are here for your listening pleasure. And also, by the way, all of these are on YouTube. If you’re a YouTube person and you want to watch their shorts or you want to actually watch the entire episodes or past episodes on YouTube and you’d prefer to take, you And in that way, you can do it. Also have on my blog, Fretzin.

com slash blog, all of these interviews or many of these interviews are turning to blog cast. So you can read away. You know, get the tips and the highlights from each show that way. Thank you all. Be safe, be well. And we will talk again soon.

Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website Fretzin. com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s [00:30:00] episode, check out today’s show notes.