Bruce La Fetra: The Client Whisperer’s Playbook in Building a Thriving Law Practice

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Bruce La Fetra discuss:

• The importance of understanding your best clients
• Marketing strategy for law firms in a competitive landscape
• The difference between experts and advisors
• The power of client testimonials and validation

Key Takeaways:

• The best clients are not only more profitable but also easier to work with, as they buy faster, pay more, and create fewer headaches, making them essential for long-term business growth.
• Law firm marketing should shift from highlighting expertise to showcasing the real-world impact of legal services, such as improving business operations, reducing risks, or increasing revenue.
• Client testimonials are most effective when they emphasize specific, measurable outcomes—like increased working capital or faster contract execution—rather than vague endorsements.
• A law firm’s messaging, from its website to client conversations, should be strategically crafted to reflect what its best clients truly value, ensuring better alignment and stronger relationships.

“So, a lot of times, people don’t know why their firm is successful. They know they have clients that they love working with, and those clients would go nowhere else, but they don’t know why.” —  Bruce La Fetra

Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at steve@fretzin.com with your toughest question, and I’ll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

The History of English Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-history-of-english-podcast/id538608536

About Bruce La Fetra: Law firm owners hire Bruce La Fetra to transform their marketing and positioning by attracting clients who buy faster, pay more, and make more referrals. Rainmakers call Bruce “The Client Whisperer” because he teaches them—and their firms—how to Think Like Your Best Clients.

Bruce takes a unique approach to understanding Best Clients. He reverse-engineers the best relationships so firms can clone their Best Clients by doing more of what they do best.

Connect with Bruce La Fetra: 

Website: http://eastwoodstrategy.com/

Email: bruce@easteoodstrategy.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blafetra/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Narrator: [00:00:00] You’re listening to Be That Lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time, with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody, welcome to the Be That Lawyer with Fretzin podcast. So happy you’re here, and welcome. We are going to have a rock and roll time today. You are an attorney. And I know what’s going on. You are hungry for information. You want to stop making mistakes. You want to do things better. You want to grow the book of business that you’ve always dreamed of.

This is the show for you every single week, twice a week. I’m bringing on the best and brightest guests I can find. And it’s not too hard because I’m in a provisors, coaches and consultants group, which has been absolutely a game changer for me and [00:01:00] finding amazing guests around the country and internationally to bring on and Bruce.

You are one of the top players in that group, from my point of view. Welcome to the show, man.

Bruce La Fetra: Thank you very much, it’s great to be here.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and you were so kind also to speak with one of my Rainmaker roundtables recently, and I know they just walked away their heads were half blown off.

Just hearing what you’re talking about and we’re going to, you guys are going to get to take advantage of Bruce and his knowledge today as well. Let’s start off though, Bruce, with our quote of the show and I just, this is one that I, I’m going to let you handle it and then I’ll chime in. It’s often a very old man has no other proof of his long life than his age.

And who said that and why is that your quote of the show and curious to hear what your thoughts are.

Bruce La Fetra: Actually now I’m forgetting who said that, but it’s Seneca. Oh, Seneca. Yes. Yes. Of course. Great Roman of but yeah, so often people in particularly in the legal industry work really hard.

And what do they have to show for it? Yeah. They’ve done a lot of work. They’ve earned maybe a lot of money, but have they made any impact on either their lives or other people? [00:02:00]

Steve Fretzin: I think that’s the goal, right? We want to, I know for me, I don’t want to just go through the motions of the day and the year and the life.

I want to make the legal industry better than I found it. I want to make sure I leave this next generation in better hands. Best we can, what’s going to happen with some of these younger folks, but I just think look, you can’t take it with you. So what are you leaving behind? Is that kind of the theme?

Bruce La Fetra: Absolutely. I’ve, I’m old enough and you are as well that I’m not going to change the whole world, but I can change a little piece of it. And actually, if we all change a little piece, we end up changing them.

Steve Fretzin: There we go. All right. I like that. Everybody. Hey, we’ve got Bruce Lafayette Lafayetre.

Holy mackerel. I just screwed that up. Who is the client whisper? Everybody Eastwood strategy client whisper. Was that, did you give yourself that name or did someone else give you that name?

Bruce La Fetra: Absolutely not. I resisted that. That was a client of mine that kept badgering me and he said, no, what you are is you’re the client whisper because I speak from the client’s voice.

And finally I broke down and I started trying that and everyone loved it. So I’m smart enough to accept the advice. I’m not smart enough to have seen it on [00:03:00] my own. My friend

Steve Fretzin: Nina Stillman, who’s also in Provisors, called me the lawyer whisper once and I was like, okay, I don’t know if that’s going to stick, but it was nice to hear.

So give us a little bit of your background because we’re going to be really diving deep into marketing strategy today. How did you get involved in that?

Bruce La Fetra: So like everything great in my life, serendipity. So there’s a lot of different things that came together from just from some customer support, sorts of things.

Come from a whole family of engineers, but I’m not one, but I always want to know how things work. And so I’ve really gravitated towards why does business work? And you can look at that from an operational side. And that’s really important. We can also look at it as why do people choose to work with you?

There’s a lot of choices in the world. And if you can understand why this particular client works with you, as opposed to all the people that look like you, you’ve got something magic there. And we’re in a business, professional services that talks about chemistry and things like that. But nobody can define what that is.

I’m working to define what that is because now you can bottle it. And now [00:04:00] you can scale. And when you scale with your best clients, life is way better. People buy faster, they pay you more. They appreciate what you do and you do your best work and you love doing it.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. I have a client right now who has a friend of his, who’s his client and he doesn’t pay him on time.

He has to beg him for the money. He’s doesn’t return his phone calls in the middle of a big M and a deal isn’t returning his calls. I’m like, you should be talking to your lawyer every day, not avoiding your lawyer’s calls in the middle of a deal. Like it’s so ridiculous. And he should have fired him eight months ago.

We finally said like last straw are you committed to this? Like we gotta. And I said, the other thing is. Lawyers don’t realize is you’ve got to build your pipeline because you’re afraid to fire that client that represents 10, 20, 30, 50 percent of your business because you don’t have the clients to support the revenue that you need.

And that’s like being, you’re like in jail at that point.

Bruce La Fetra: Let’s talk about that for a second because your top clients, your best clients, the ones that would clone you if you would clone, if you could, they don’t create headaches. They’re your more profitable [00:05:00] clients. They’re the ones that you generate profit.

They never create headaches. They’re worth their weight in gold. Your bottom clients, the reverse is they’re the bottom 20 percent that caused most of your headaches and very little of your profit. So even if they’re paying you your rate, you’re spending all sorts of extra time. You’re kicking the dog when you get home, you’re yelling at the wife.

Those are all costs. And if you, so those bottom clients, actually the top clients are worth more. If you can replace one bottom plant with one top client, it’s. Usually the resources will support a couple of top clients. So now you’re not only not having the headaches, but you’re having your most profitable clients.

That’s, it’s more than just one for one replacement. It’s a really. It’s maybe not exponential, but it’s up in that realm of you’re accelerating.

Steve Fretzin: I want to, we’re going to take a deep dive into this whole subject of best clients. I think one of the concerns that the lawyers have is I’m just looking to get clients.

Like I’m just looking, I just need more business and I want to grow my book of business. Is it better to have great [00:06:00] clients and amazing people that have big deals and lots of money and never complain? Yeah, of course that’s great. But let’s also be realistic that some people are just trying to get. To their first couple hundred thousand dollars or to their first million.

And so they’re like, they’re just taking on whatever they can take on because it’s adding to what they need to do to get to that book of business or something. Mistake, not a mistake.

Bruce La Fetra: Sometimes, and your best clients aren’t necessarily big clients. They often are your better clients from that standpoint.

But I know a lawyer who, when he started out, he’s much more focused now, but he talked about, he used to practice door law. I said, what’s door law? He goes, anything that comes through the door, I can do. Yeah. That’s not a way to build. That’s a way to grind. That’s not a way to thrive. And your best clients, they buy faster.

So he’s been, everyone loves doing business development. So I hate to take away from that and, put you into doing actual legal work, but they buy faster because they say, Oh my God, Steve, you get me. And when they get, when they say that they trust you, which is the basis for value. And that’s why they’ll say, what’s [00:07:00] your, instead of pushing back on your rate or what you charge, it’s like, Oh, they’re looking at what the impact is on their business.

You’re a great investment. So I’m going to pay you generously because you are so good for my business. Those are clients you love to work with. They listen to you, unlike the story about the M& A attorney. They listen to you, so they’re taking action. I hate it when people say I give them advice, but my clients don’t follow it.

What kind of life is that?

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and by the way, it’s setting everybody up to fail and it’s setting up a potential, issue with your malpractice because again, you could be totally in the right, but they’re not following what you’re saying and they’re getting into trouble. They might come back to you.

So

Bruce La Fetra: who wants to build a business giving people good advice that they don’t follow?

Steve Fretzin: That’s a very good point you make there. But look, I think sometimes people have the best intentions to follow good advice. Let’s just say, all right, legal advice, I think definitely you got to follow that, right? And then let’s say you’re giving marketing advice, I’m giving business development advice.

Yes, they should follow our [00:08:00] advice, but sometimes it’s also hard, right? Because change is hard, and you’re saying to them, hey, you’ve been doing it for 10 years this way. I’ve identified, you need to do it a very different way. Now go change. And that may be where there’s a little bit of push and pull.

Bruce La Fetra: So what I have found it, and I’ve been doing this long enough that I could probably tell people 80 percent of the answer, because I’ve done this for a long time, but I’m just a stupid consultant. They know their business. And so that’s where I go and I interview, and this is a very in depth interview.

This is not your classic, customer satisfaction, interview. To understand their best clients and what, how they see the value, how they see the impact. And they don’t actually think this way until you start to peel back the onion and they say, Oh my God. Yeah. There’s this thing that Steve does that I never really thought about.

But if you were to do anything different, it’d be a totally different relationship. Now it’s people that they know it’s their best clients. It’s the ones that they’ve had years long relationship with. They know they love working with you. But now I’m being able to put those words to it. I had one [00:09:00] client who’s really smart, spent a lot of time talking to their clients, and they said, what you told us, a lot of what you told us, we’d actually heard that before.

And he goes, the difference was we didn’t know what it meant. We thought we knew what it meant. But now we know what it means and they changed, they don’t change what they do with their best clients. They change how they talk about it and how they see it. And it becomes almost instant gratification because the client goes, Steve, we’ll work together for all these years and I’ve never been able to, I tell people you’re great, but I’ve never been able to distill down what the magic is.

You just put words on it. That becomes self reinforcing very quickly. And that spreads through the organization.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. But the other thing that you mentioned, Bruce is. When you talk to someone’s client and they hear what the client says is the magic or they say why the client thinks that lawyer is so amazing, you can say it but that’s maybe not the same as when a client says it.

There’s something that gets triggered when, like for example, I don’t work with [00:10:00] anyone really That doesn’t talk to one or two of my clients before they come on board I just feel like validation and making sure and by the way my client might come back to me and say that person reschedule with me five times and blew me off and I’d be like I’m not working with that person like that person just disqualified themselves out of working with me but the point is I can tell them this is what’s going to happen and this is how great it’s going to be and this is why you should hire me, but when they talk to a client that’s gotten two, three, four million dollars, which is where they want to go, that changes everything. So I think your point, we need to sometimes bring in proof and evidence.

And that helps to balance our story better of what we’re trying to do with that client.

Bruce La Fetra: And that’s the difference with the interviews that I do is not only how I structure the interview, because it’s all about not, how does my client help you, Mr. Fretzin? It’s, Mr. Fretzin, how does my client improve your business?

But then I put a name on everything, there’s nothing anonymous, some clients say this, that, it’s Bruce said this, Steve said that, Mary said whoa, Mary said that, now all of a sudden it starts to you need to understand the background, so we talk about the background a [00:11:00] little bit, and then there’s Steve said that too, it’s oh, okay, maybe you’re actually onto something here, Bruce, and that’s the credibility that drives action, because it’s not me being Mr.

Smart Consultant, it’s Me telling the story through the words of their own clients that they have a deep level of trust in and chemistry with.

Steve Fretzin: With proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm, Rankings. io prides itself on proof, not promises mentality. The best firms hire Rankings.

io when they want rankings, traffic, and cases. Other law firm marketing agencies can’t deliver. Get more rankings, get cases, and schedule a free consultation at Rankings. io today. Hey everybody, Steve Fretzin here. Man, I thought I was a good marketer, but maybe not. Lawyers have been approaching me asking, what’s the Rainmakers Roundtable?

I tell them this is a special place created exclusively for rainmaking lawyers. To continue their journey of prosperity, our program is unique as every member has a significant book of business and is [00:12:00] motivated to grow it year after year. Where else does this exist? If you’re a managing partner who’s looking to get off your lonely island and talk shop with America’s top rainmakers, please go to my website, Fretzin.

com and apply for membership today. So let’s take a step back and then forward. So I was talking with a lawyer friend of mine the other day and he wanted to know more about what I do and all. And so part of what I try to do is decide. Does this person have problems that I help with, or is it you? Bruce, is it someone else, right?

Is it operational? Is it finances and marketing? Is that something that I don’t do and that I’m not an expert in? And can I refer them? So in this case, that was a guy I’m like, look, you’re not ready for me yet. You need to get like your ducks in a row. So full service ish firm that wants to be known in a particular area as the go to firm in that area, but their website, the way they talk about what they do and everything was all so generic.

That I was like, this is a marketing issue. [00:13:00] And he wanted to invest money on a CRM and case management and marketing. And he even mentioned the word billboard to me. And I was like, holy crap, that’s a long way to go to spend money on a billboard. And I’m thinking in my head you don’t know who you are.

So let’s take that potential person through sort of your channels of like, how do you help someone figure that out? Because clearly there’s some gaps there.

Bruce La Fetra: So there’s a fork there as well for me. So if it’s just aspirational, this is what they want to be, but they not aren’t actually that I’ll go.

Steve Fretzin: So they don’t, but he doesn’t know what he wants to be.

That’s part of the problem is I was like, who are you? Her website said like bold and brilliant and smart or whatever it was. I was like, what does that even mean? Bold, brilliant, smart. So that’s why I was like, this is a marketing strategy play, because I think it’s you start with that and then you can start figuring out tactical things and things that you need to.

Well,

Bruce La Fetra: and I need to. For me, they need to be successful. That doesn’t mean they need to be successful in their niche, but that there are, and I say first, who are your best [00:14:00] clients? And they say, what’s that? And I say who would you clone if you could? And I had one firm that went, had worked with another consultant and went through every client individually, like seven criteria, all this stuff, and it just became really hard.

And that fell apart for various reasons. And I talked to him some months later and I started out with who, which clients would you clone if you could. And he was just dumbfounded for a minute, and he told me the story. He goes, you to that in one question. So a lot of times people don’t know why their firm is successful.

They know they have clients that they love working with. And those clients would go nowhere else, but they don’t know why. And sometimes it’s in a particular area, maybe it’s geographic, maybe it’s a practice area. Sometimes it’s the type of relationship and they say we do these other things on the side that we think are peripheral.

It turns out some of the times those things are core. And sometimes they say this. They thought it was their practice area and the natural extension from that. And the clients don’t care [00:15:00] about that. They care about these other things. That’s really enlightening to them because now they’re not just like everyone else, but they’re not doing it because they have some marketing reason to be like, their unique selling proposition.

It’s because this is what draws their best clients to them. And now they can talk about how they’re different without. Talking about how they’re different. They’re just talking about who they are and that’s both more natural, but it’s also what drives that trust and credibility.

Steve Fretzin: So Bruce, what’s a case study you could give us on that, where that might resonate with folks?

Bruce La Fetra: Great. So one of my favorite stories is a firm that does a lot of, a boutique firm. A lot of the firms I work with are boutique. In this case, Arisa work, very complex. There’s tax and there’s ESOPs and all this. These are smart people. And in order to try to accelerate their business, they went to a marketing agency and said, ask them why do people, work with you?

And so we’re really smart. We have all these answers. We share things with people before. And if it’s not right, we’re open to telling them that it’s not right. We’re not just trying to book [00:16:00] business every time. And after a year, they were just exactly where they were. And that’s when they met me. And my question was, what are you trying to accomplish?

It turns out the managing partner wanted to retire in six years. He brought in 80 some part of percent of the business, couldn’t get anyone else to generate business because it was so complex. And what we, by talking to the clients, what we found out was what they actually did, the expertise is how they executed the clients, trusted them and hired them because they were consultative.

Is this the right, what are you trying to accomplish with your phantom stock program, as opposed to let’s implement your phantom stock, right? What are you trying to accomplish? Is this the right way to accomplish your goal? That was why people hired them.

Steve Fretzin: So then what changes did they make then to then transition from.

So they stopped

Bruce La Fetra: talking about all their expertise and they started highlighting the consultative process, which is what they actually did with their best clients. They had a consultation they would do with clients to [00:17:00] say, Hey, is this the right thing? It’s free whiteboarding session, yellow, that sort of thing.

Now they do the exact same obsession, but it’s a very premium price. I get very mad if I tell you how much they charge for it. And people say why would someone pay you that much money for you to tell them no to their idea? It’s because six months or 12 months later, after you spent way more than that’s the best money you’ve ever spent.

But most of the time, if it’s right, these clients don’t even look anywhere else because now they have that trust. They’re saying, you get me, that you’re not just trying to sell me some legal stuff, some programs, some contracts and things, but you actually are trying to advance my business goals because you understand my business.

And so now they go to market as essentially consultants as opposed to experts.

Steve Fretzin: And there’s, every lawyer wants to be seen as an expert. They can’t call themselves experts, but they want to be seen as those experts and thought leaders. What’s the danger of positioning yourself as an [00:18:00] expert in this case?

It’s right. They shared like a good reason why, but isn’t that, but that’s what most people want is they’re looking for an expert or not.

Bruce La Fetra: So think about experts. So let’s just talk about, there’s, I call them COGS experts and advisors. So COGS are people that do work. We don’t need to talk about them.

That mean they do a lot of work. It’s really valuable. Experts answer questions. That’s what you look for an expert to do is answer a question. But the problem that this firm had was that they said we can answer any question you have, but clients didn’t know what questions they needed to ask. So they were pushing it back and telling the clients even more complicated than you thought it was.

Oh maybe we don’t need to go down this path. And experts think they can never replace me. The next person, next expert who’s faster, better, cheaper, we’ll replace you. Now, above that, and certainly from our profizer’s experience, there’s the advisor. The advisor is there to help you figure out what questions to ask.

They may also be experts and can answer those questions, but fundamentally they’re [00:19:00] to align with your goals as a business. And your value as an expert is to answer questions while other people can answer questions, your value as an advisor is how do you impact and improve their business. And so the valuation can be very different.

And a lot of my clients and. And I won’t, I don’t push this too much, but a lot of my clients end up going towards more flat rate pricing because they can now price to what the impact on the businesses, as opposed to how many hour client doesn’t care how many hours you put in, they care. How is their business improved?

And so a great example of that is I worked with an attorney that did contract, business contract, sales contract, those kinds of things. And she thought her great differentiator was how many contracts she’d done. She kept count of them all. I think it was 1, 253 contracts she’d done. And she thought this was why people hired her.

After we did some work together, she now has client story that she tells about a firm that she changed the name. [00:20:00] Sales contract, but it was a fairly complex, sales process. And so now the contract allows them to collect more money sooner with greater confidence. And so the CEO of that company doesn’t talk about how good her sales contract is.

He talks about that her, she helped them read through their sales contract so that they were able to add 350, 000 in working capital to the company. I love that. Now she doesn’t talk about how many she’s done, she uses that example and people say, Oh my God, you get me.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. That’s what I really want, right?

At the end of the day. And like my big thing, that’s going on a tangent, but it’s I don’t want to collect AR. So I have everybody on ACH and credit card across the board. I have zero AR. And how many lawyers would like that? At the end of the year when they’re making all their calls. It’s like there’s contracts that you can put in place, but anyway, to get on a tangent, but I absolutely love that story.

That case study and that story really should resonate with lawyers, but let’s wrap up with three, this is a real quick round, three [00:21:00] additional tips for lawyers to identify and capture their best clients. Go.

Bruce La Fetra: I think. Putting it on you there. Think about. In terms of what you’re trying to think about is how do you improve your client’s business?

Not what do you do?

Steve Fretzin: Okay.

Bruce La Fetra: What’s the outcome that the marketing outcome for the client? It’s not just the outcome, but what’s the impact of the outcome. You could say the outcome is a sales contract, but the outcome really is that they’re collecting money faster and with greater certainty. That’s the outcome.

So you need to dig a little bit deeper. When you start to do that, you start to see the business really differently. You’re still doing the same work. You’re crafting contracts with good language and all those kinds of things. That’s what you do. That’s how you run your business. That’s really important.

That’s how you avoid malpractice. That’s how you have good processes. But the client doesn’t care about that. They care about how do I collect money from my customers with greater certainty and faster. And when you do that how does that benefit [00:22:00] your business? Mr. Fretzin. If I have more cash coming in, I have more working capital.

I can expand, I can hire another salesperson. I can expand my manufacturing. How many lawyers can talk about, I want to improve your sales contract with that sort of conversation. And so it’s different for everyone, but you don’t have to necessarily have this deep industry knowledge. You need to understand what their client is trying to accomplish.

And people bond with that because now they see you as a person, as opposed to something that can be easily replaced. Those are usually people that are more fun to work with. And so think about your clients as people, they might be CEO of an organization, but there’s still people love to think about how they gain.

So the what’s in it for them, thing is kind of cliche, but take that two steps further and you’ll see the world really differently. And

Steve Fretzin: once you get that, it’s all about the impact, the outcome, like that trigger of what the clients want from you. How do you relay that into your website, into your LinkedIn, into your marketing and [00:23:00] brand yourself around that?

That’s the actionable side that may be tricky. Yeah.

Bruce La Fetra: That becomes, those become easy story. So it’s, it’s counterintuitive to the way we think. So it’s a little bit hard to get there. And that’s where I can really help people with the interviews and the stories that come back. But once you do it, I have clients all the time.

They say, it’s yeah, we didn’t see this for all those years until you came along, but now we can’t unsee it. I have a zero recidivism rate, because once they see it, they can’t unsee it because now all of a sudden it’s oh my God, when we talk this way. People want to, the right people want to work with us.

And the people that aren’t a good fit say thank you, but no, thank you. I think you’re smart, but I just can’t see working with you. That’s awesome. That gets you around that dilemma that you talked about early in the conversation about I can’t get rid of someone that pays me money. There’s two people that want to pay you more money.

Maybe you’ll make the. The first one’s hard. The second one’s a little bit easier. The third one comes a little bit easier. And after the fourth and fifth one, it’s bring them on.

Steve Fretzin: Really cool stuff. Hey man Bruce, great. I so appreciate it. Let’s wrap up with our game changing [00:24:00] podcast, the history of the English language podcast.

That is one I have not heard of.

Bruce La Fetra: So that is one that I started listening to the car some years ago, and it started way back with Proto, Indo European, but how everything is connected, and we think in the English language, we have these weird spellings, and it makes no sense, and it’s random, there’s a reason for all this stuff, because it all comes from Latin and French and Old English, and So we have, that’s part of the richness of English, is we have three words for everything, and that creates this huge richness, but it also explains the weird spelling.

Monty Python, if you’re a Monty Python, the holy grail. Huge fan from the 80s, yep. The kniggets that’s the way it was pronounced at the time. The, you, mother smell of elderberry that was an actual insult. Back in the day, these, they’re really educated and people don’t realize just the depth of the comedy that goes back into the language that they use.

So that’s been my fun car time for a long time.

Steve Fretzin: [00:25:00] Awesome. Good for a road trip, everybody. Let’s wrap up with our thanking our wonderful sponsors. Of course, everybody if you’re in the PI space, you’re going to want to check out PymCon coming up in October. Really, top shelf type of a program that they’re running every year with my friends Chris Dry over at Rankings IO.

And of course, the LawHer podcast. If you’re listening to my show, you’re definitely going to like that show. So check that out with Sonia. And Bruce, if people want to get in touch with you, they want to talk with the Client Whisperer and start understanding who their best clients are and how to attract them, what’s the best way for them to reach you?

They can reach

Bruce La Fetra: me with LinkedIn. I’m the only Bruce LaFetra, L A F E T R A out there. They can also give me a call. 865 230 9900 goes straight to me or text, or they can email me at bruce at eastwoodstrategy. com.

Steve Fretzin: And we’ll throw that in the show notes too. So you’ll all have that information about Bruce.

The key thing here, everybody is really to think about, you can do lots of different marketing, but if it isn’t going back to what your overall objective and key strategies are, you might be just [00:26:00] be, moving money around that’s not going to really get you the impact, right? Bruce, that’s the key.

Build business. Don’t just do marketing. Yeah. Right now. Thanks, man. Thanks for coming to the show, sharing your wisdom. Again, I so appreciate you. Want to have you come back and talk with one or two of my other groups. At some point we’ll talk about that offline, but just keep doing what you’re doing, man.

You’re a huge part of the coaches consultants group and provisors and you’ve been, I’m just so happy that we finally over a year or so, we’re able to connect.

Bruce La Fetra: Very fun i love talking to you and love all the stuff that you do so awesome

Steve Fretzin: awesome i appreciate that and thank you everybody for spending some time on the be that lawyer with Fretzin podcast helping you as usual to be confident organized and a skilled rainmaker take everybody be safe be well we will talk again soon.

Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website Fretzin. com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business [00:27:00] development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.