Alex Karasik: From Zero Clients to Rainmaker Through Relentless Preparation

How did a young partner go from “no plan, no book” to doubling his business year over year—without ever feeling like a salesperson? In this episode, you’ll hear how deliberate preparation, mentors, and genuine relationships can transform a legal career into a true rainmaking engine.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Alex Karasik discuss:

• Family values and early influences on career and character
• The power of preparation and the Muhammad Ali mindset
• Learning business development from elite mentors
• Relationship-based rainmaking and “sales-free” selling
• Starting early: advice for law students and young lawyers on BD

Key Takeaways:

• Success in law—whether in the courtroom or in business development—is largely determined by the preparation you do when no one is watching.
• Treating business development as relationship-building and problem-solving, rather than “selling,” removes the anxiety many lawyers feel around sales.
• A strong network, built on kindness, favors, and “mitzvahs” with no expectation of return, often becomes the foundation of a durable book of business.
• Carving out protected time for business development—evenings, early mornings, or weekends—is essential if you want to stop “running someone else’s race.”
• The biggest regret for many successful lawyers is not starting earlier: law school and even college are not too soon to begin building a network and presence.

“If you don’t make time for business development, it’s not going to happen. It’s not something that just happens by chance or by luck.” —  Alex Karasik

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About Alex Karasik: Alex W. Karasik is a core member of Duane Morris’ Class Action Defense Team and multiple artificial intelligence committees, specializing in high-stakes employment law and privacy matters. He represents a diverse clientele—ranging from Fortune 500 multinational organizations to local Chicagoland businesses—across major industries including hospitality, technology, healthcare, and manufacturing. Recognized as an industry thought leader, Mr. Karasik’s legal analysis has been featured in Forbes and Law360, and he has been honored as a Super Lawyers “Rising Star” (2024–2026) and in Best Lawyers “Ones to Watch.” Prior to his seven years as an associate at an international law firm, he earned his J.D. from Notre Dame, where he served as President of the Sports, Communication & Entertainment Law Forum. He also holds a Master of Communication Management and a Bachelor of Arts from the University of Southern California, where he spent over five years working with the USC Trojans football team under Coach Pete Carroll.

Connect with Alex Karasik:

Website: https://www.duanemorris.com/attorneys/alexkarasik.html

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Steve Fretzin  [00:00]

Hey everybody, before we get to the show, just want to remind you that the Be That Lawyer community is up and running and rock and rolling. We have a lot of amazing business developer and rainmaking attorneys in there. We’ve got incredible content, courses, live events, and all kinds of ways to help you to be that lawyer. Check it out today at Be That lawyer.com/community And other than that, please enjoy the show.

 

Narrator  [00:29]

You’re listening to Be That Lawyer: Life-Changing Strategies and Resources for Growing a Successful Law Practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

 

Steve Fretzin  [00:51]

Everybody, Steve Fretzin, and welcome to Be That Lawyer. This is the show where you’re learning all about how to be that lawyer, confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. Alex, we’re talking marketing, we’re talking branding, time management, business development, how to elevate your game, right? So happy that you’re here, my buddy Alex is with us today. Everybody,

 

Alex Karasik  [01:10]

thank you, Steve. It’s a pleasure to be here, and I’m grateful for the opportunity to be on your podcast.

 

Steve Fretzin  [01:15]

That was a very kind of formal way to get in. Hello, everybody. This is almost like you’re doing like a white guy’s voice, but that’s all right. Alex, man, you are the coolest guy. I’m trying to remember where we met. We met through, we met through Jerry Madman. He’s been on the show a few times.

 

Alex Karasik  [01:30]

Yeah, absolutely. Jerry Madman is one of my mentors and a well-known rainmaker in the legal industry, and I remember you had said to Jerry, you’re looking for, you know, young, hungry lawyers who are, you know, particularly newer partners looking to grow their book of business and take the next step in their career, and you mentioned to me that I was the first name Jerry had said to you, and when you reached out, I never had even crossed my mind to work with a business development coach, but what you do is something that was something I’ve really been interested in doing, which is trying to learn how to, you know, build my client base and figure out ways I can help as many people and as many companies as possible, so it was a natural fit, and I think we hit it off since our, our first, you know, introductory Zoom call, and been a blast working with you since then. Yeah,

 

Steve Fretzin  [02:14]

and then it turns out we have all this in common growing up in the North Shore, and love our love and passion for Highwood, and you know you take care of your brother and I take care of my brother and like we both have this thing in common of caring for our families and it’s just it’s you’ve been an incredible relationship and I’m excited to get into the weeds with you today about how we work together and then the incredible growth that you’ve seen and in just how passionate you are about advocating for your clients and growing your book of business, however, before we get into all of that, you know what we love to do. We love our quote of the show, and today you’ve got a wonderful one. Muhammad Ali – I actually was in Louisville, and I blew off the Muhammad Ali Museum, and I’m regretting it now that you said this. But here’s the quote: The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights. So happy that you’re here. Tell us why you love that quote from Muhammad Ali.

 

Alex Karasik  [03:08]

Yeah, I love that quote, because it’s all about preparation and it’s all about what you do when no one’s watching. I think a lot of character is defined as who you are and what you do when no one else is watching. A lot of times when we see things on LinkedIn, or in public, or on social media. In this day and age, we’re quick to glorify wins. People see they want the result, they want the victory, they want the new client, they want the bonus, they want everything that comes with the success. But not a lot of people realize that those achievements are won or lost far before you actually get to that point. It’s all about the preparation, and it starts with you. It starts with you looking yourself in the mirror every morning and deciding what you’re going to do to make yourself better, what your goals are, identifying your goals, writing your goals down, and then going out there and getting them. And as a lawyer, right, a lot of what we’re doing is preparing to do an oral argument in court, preparing for a trial, preparing for, you know, to close a deal, preparing for a law school exam or a college exam, even if we’re looking back before being a lawyer, right, preparing for the LSAT, the bar exam, and people see they want the goals, they want the wins, they want the victories, they want the accolades, they want the success, but the preparation is really where you win or lose those items, and I think with business development tying it into what we do, Steve, it’s the same thing. It’s the same principle defining it, and one of the first things that we did when we worked together, right, is figuring out who you are. You and I took a hard look at who I am. What is going to be my road? What’s my path to success? How am I going to land clients? What are my strengths? What are my weaknesses? What are threats to my market? You know, analysis, you know, what are threats that are going to be to me to developing business, and how can we overcome those challenges together. And I think, for me, it took a lot of digging. Okay, here’s what I can do well, here’s what I need to get better at, and coming up with a cogent plan. And I think it’s great when you start, you know. Growing your business year after year, and you love to see those results, but I’ll never forget where I was when I first started working with you. I’ll never forget where I was when I was first a partner, and you know, you got to remember back to when you’re hungry, when you had no clients, no business, because every partner that’s a rainmaker at one point had zero clients, you know, no one was born with a client out of the grave, some people have introductions and have clients kind of handed to them, and that’s great, but at some point we all end our first client, right? And we have to remember how hungry we were and what we did to get there and to continue to grow from that point.

 

Steve Fretzin  [05:33]

I remember when I was changing my kids’ diapers, and I was like, you know, before we go any further, Andrew, you know, here’s our first client,

 

Alex Karasik  [05:40]

you go,

 

Steve Fretzin  [05:41]

yeah, the other, the other thing I was gonna say is, you’re talking about this, is yeah, I’m a 20 year overnight success, right? So, like, yeah, it’s so much of it, and this is why you know we talk on the show a lot about becoming a student of the game in business development, yes, there’s coaching, and there’s things that you can do when you hit a certain point in your career, however, as a law school student, as a year one and two, you know, are you listening to podcasts like this? Are you taking in content from books and articles? Are you recognizing that this is going to be a part of your career, like it or not? And I don’t know that there’s lawyers that you know say, “I can’t wait to get out of law school so I can start selling legal services, right, but ultimately this is where we find ourselves in 2026 that it’s a big part of freedom, independence, and control in one’s career, and it’s very hard, you know, to get ahead today. Maybe 20 years ago, you know, yeah, you could, you could be a service partner and maybe, you know, have a great life and everything, and I’m not saying you can’t do that today. I just think you’re the risks of having that mindset are far greater today than maybe 20 years ago.

 

Alex Karasik  [06:47]

Absolutely, and I love how you talked about it, you know, with people starting in the earlier stages of their career, right? It’s one of those things you don’t think about when you’re in college, taking the LSAT, and then you’re in law school, you’re trying to learn the law, and that’s important. You got to know the law. You got to be a great technical lawyer, but preparing for the business side of it is something that a lot of things, a lot of law schools don’t teach those things right about learning how you’re going to grow your business. Yes, you want to learn the law. Yes, you want to get a job for many people at a big law firm, other people that may be a nonprofit, other people want to go into, you know, government or even non-legal related fields, and the, of course, the education will prepare you for that, but what it doesn’t always prepare you for, even no matter how great of a law school you went to, is what you’re going to have to do to handle the business side of things, which is important, because that’s essentially what working at a large law firm, a great firm like Dwayne Morris, it’s a business, and you’ve got to learn that aspects of it, and I think coming up with a plan and a structure to do that has been something that’s been very helpful for me.

 

Steve Fretzin  [07:48]

Yeah, well, everybody, we’ve got Alex Caracci here, he’s a partner at Duane Morris, Morris, a very large firm, he’s based in Chicago, and we were been working together for a while, and you kind of moved from our main program into the peer advisory, but ultimately, you know, I want people to understand your story. So take us back and how you kind of came up as a kid lawyer to where you are today.

 

Alex Karasik  [08:09]

Thank you, Steve. The most important thing to me in my life is my family. There’s nothing more important than family. I love my family more than anything in the world, and that’s where my story begins. My dad is my hero. He’s an incredible lawyer, uh, spent his whole career at Baker McKenzie, from, you know, in basically the lowest level of associate all the way to, uh, principal or equity partner, and now he’s senior counsel, turning 70 this summer, and to have him as a mentor is someone that I, you know, I’m grateful for that, not everybody has a lawyer that they can look to ask about the questions of the unwritten rules of the practice, and he always told me he played for one team his whole career, like Walter Payton, Chicago Bears running back. He’s been in one firm, and he’s taught me a lot of principles about loyalty, about toughness, about doing the right thing, and he’s incredible. My late mom, Kendra, was a special lady in my life. She taught me a few very important lessons, in addition to always being there. She always said to smile and stand up straight. And another thing she’d also teach me is to pick out your outfit the night before. And all those may seem like simple pieces of advice, there’s more deep-rooted meanings to that. Pick out their outfit the night before means be prepared, take care of all the things before game day, so when you go into the courtroom, you know, you’ve already done all the prep, and that kind of goes back to the Muhammad Ali quote I said, and smile and stand up straight, be confident in who you are, no matter what you do, no matter whether you win or lose that argument, that trial, whether you win that client or not, keep your chin up, because no, you’ve done everything to put yourself in that position, and last, but definitely not least, and most importantly, is my best friend my older brother Jack. Jack is a superstar Special Olympics athlete. Steve, you’ve been kind enough to invite Jack to some of your networking events, and he ends up taking the floor away from everyone because he’s such a it. He’s an awesome guy. Jack is, we’re 18 months apart. He’s turning 40 this September, so a lot of big birthdays come. Up in my family, but everything I do comes back to my family and the principles they’ve taught me. Jack has taught me again that, you know, you, not everybody, not every company, not every client, not every situation we’re in professionally is going to be the way it might have been, you know, perfect, right? And we have to accept things as where they come and learn to love things for who they are and what they are, that kind of my family propelled me into law, like many other viewers, I’m sure, who have, you know, fathers or grandfathers or uncles, there were attorneys, I have all of those, that was my passion. Prior to law, I worked, I grew up in the Chicagoland area, in a suburb called Lake Forest, attended a college at USC, and I worked for the football team of the USC Trojans helped out in recruiting, and I tried to be a fly on the wall. I take a lot of the lessons I learned working from Super Bowl-winning coach Pete Carroll and the USC Trojans. I mean, that was a blast, but seeing how a team comes together and the amount of dedication and preparation a team needs to put in to get the results they want is something that’s been incredibly helpful for me as a lawyer. I work in a lot of class action defense teams, and working in a team environment, a fast-paced environment, you truly are every single person needs to do their role to function like a well-oiled machine. And I’m proud to have been part of two Rose Bowl championship teams. And coincidentally, as hard as it was for me from a football loyalty standpoint, I went to Notre Dame for law school, which turned out to be a great blessing. I loved my time at Notre Dame. And football allegiances aside, many lifelong friends and incredible network of lawyers. Notre Dame is big on doing things ethically and responsibly and doing things the right way.

 

Alex Karasik  [11:36]

Ashley spoke at Notre Dame’s AI conference last year, and that was the big theme, right, ethically and responsibly adopting AI in the law school taught me those same qualities, and I think fortunately, my family, my time with USC football, and living in California, my time in Notre Dame prepared me to grow into a career of law. I was fortunate enough to start my career working with a mentor like Jerry Matman, spent seven years at Cipher Shaw, great firm, great people. Learned a lot at Cyfar about employment law, and obviously learning how to not just be a great lawyer, but from Jerry and from others on his team, the marketing side of it, and learning the business development side. And eventually our team went over to Dwayne Morris, and that’s where I am today. I’m proud to have made partner to Wayne Morris, I’m part of the employment law group, and I’m the chair of our global AI task force for the employment law group, also on the firm’s AI steering committee. And while I specialize in employment law, my practice has evolved beyond just traditional employment claims. I do a lot of privacy class actions, data breach class actions, AI counseling, and still love helping, you know, helping companies solve people problems with, you know, your basic employment claims. So much like my life has evolved from football to loss, so is my practice, but that’s something we need to do, is to be agile. The world is constantly changing, and we need to be prepared to adapt and thrive in any environment. Yeah, well, that’s

 

Steve Fretzin  [13:00]

an amazing background, and I’m, you know, passionate about my late great Larry, the lawyer, lawyer father. I was going to ask you about, did you get grilled as a teenager the way I did, but I didn’t want to go down that road. But, you know, what I really wanted to get into, you know, now that we have this background laid out, is, you know, when, when you and I met, and through, and, you know, you know, God bless Jerry for making a great introduction, so that we have this chance to work together, you know, and he’s been an incredible part of my life, and not only writing a forward for one of my books, but being in one of my books and being on my podcast multiple times, is, you know, he really takes business development so seriously, it’s become his whole life, and I think you’ve sort of seen the light, and you know, maybe where we started and where we are today are very different places, but you know, I’d love for you to share a little bit of that journey with everybody, because I don’t, I think there’s sort of like a veil or a curtain or something between the people listening to the show and the people who I get to work with and have the pleasure of working with. So, maybe touch on that, and how you’ve sort of worked through and figured out your path.

 

Alex Karasik  [13:58]

Yeah, absolutely, Steve, that’s a great point, and we all come from different places and start from different places. Some folks, you know, start with great mentors, like I was fortunate to others don’t. But one of the things I realized, starting with a great mentor, is that, you know, eventually I’ve got to be my own man, do my own thing, right? And he’s been, Jerry’s been, um, incredibly helpful in teaching me how to market, putting me on some of the best class action teams as a young attorney, so I can learn how it’s done, and eventually meeting some of his biggest class action cases, but one of the things that I’ve always seen that’s a constant is he’s continually marketing, doing blogs, webinars, speeches, meeting with clients, meeting with clients in person, taking me to some of those meetings, also being present on some of the virtual meetings, and learning the different avenues of business development, because no matter how many hours you spend doing that litigating, if you don’t make time for business development, it’s not going to happen. It’s not something that just happens by chance or by luck. You got to be purposeful, and I realized how purposeful he is about it, and at the same time, at a point in my career, you know, coming into. I graduated law school in 2015 so now I’m in my 11th year as a lawyer, right. And at a certain point, it’s time for me to go out, build my client base, build my book, and that’s something I realized a few years ago when I started working with you. I was fortunate enough to make partner in 2023 just eight years into a lawyer, you know, at a major Am Law 100 firm, and that’s something I’m proud of, but realize that that comes with a responsibility and a challenge to build business, and it’s a challenge I relish. You got to love it, you got to wake up every day and want to do it. And I appreciate having a mentor that’s supportive, like Jerry. It’s not the opposite of what you’d think, right? He’s, he was thrilled, he introduced me to you, right, and he’s like, I want you to go out, learn from Steve, and build business, and it’s something that he’s encouraging me, and when he checks in on me now, when we meet down the hallway, it’s usually one of the first things. How’s it going? And and he’s always been supportive, and somebody I give you know, give it, he gives me advice on how to help reel in a big fish, just like you, Steven. When I get, you know, when you have client development questions, it’s nice to have people like that, but I would encourage attorneys where my situation, if you’re a senior associate or junior partner in a, in a firm, in medium-sized or large firm, it’s okay to have mentors, but work with your mentors, don’t be afraid to ask them, How can I grow a business, what do you recommend I do? Might also

 

Steve Fretzin  [16:18]

just to chime in, it might also give you some insights as to the culture that you’re in. If they’re like, just keep your head down and don’t think about it, that’s a very different answer. Then that’s great that you’re interested in that, and let me support you in trying to build your own client base. That’s very telling, by the way. I also wanted to ask you, Alex, you mentioned about having kind of a mindset of it, and how important that is, lawyers that dislike sales or lawyers that just feel resentful with the idea of the concept of business development as a part of their role. Now, how did you get through that, and how do you, how do you think they, that you would like? What would you recommend a lawyer that kind of has some negative feelings about

 

Alex Karasik  [16:56]

it? Yeah, a lot of lawyers come in without a sales background. I certainly didn’t have any, as I mentioned, I worked in college football. I worked also with Fox Sports, doing NFL highlights. I have no sales experience, and that was some of one of the things for me is like, my first thing, well, how am I going to get business? Like, reach out to people and ask them, can I be your lawyer? I don’t want to bother people, I don’t want to, you know, you feel like I’m trying to push something onto someone, and, and we get it too, right? And I, I realized as a lawyer, right? When I made.. when I started my career as a lawyer, I’m getting phone calls left and right from financial advisors, people trying to sell me new suits. I mean, it’s part of the professional world, but one of the things I’ve learned from you, and not to give away your secret recipes, but is the sales-free selling and learning how to. it’s okay when you’ve worked hard, build yourself to this point in your career where you have something that you can do to help someone, and I’m going to get into this in a moment, probably, but I think relationship is really important, right? And when you build relationships with people, you don’t look at it as sales, you’re trying to help out your friends, you’re trying to help out a friend of a friend, or your friend thinks you can help out one of their friends, and I find for me that getting over that hump is something that’s really important. When you build the brand, you do things the right way, and you genuinely build relationships and get to know people. It’s not sales. Yeah, a lot of the people I work with are people I would consider very good friends, people I’ve gone to Bulls games with, people I’ve gone out to dinner with in Lake Forest, people that I like being around, and it’s, and they realize it’s not me trying to be salesy or pushy, it’s just that I care about them, and I’m, I give them my cell phone numbers, I want to help them, and that to me, I think when you realize it’s relationship based, and not just you’re trying to give them a product and you have no interest in who they are, you get over kind of that hurdle that I think a lot of people without a sales background, yeah, uh, might be a little bit, you know, apprehensive about.

 

Steve Fretzin  [18:47]

Another way to think about it, too, Alex, and I know you, you buy into this, is that if I hear that you have an issue, or I hear that someone else, you know, is going through something, or personally, or professionally, and I step in and offer up, you know, help or condolence, or even better, like a resource that helps to resolve it. That’s really what sales is. If it’s being done right, it’s really solving, not really selling. And I think that’s maybe the trigger point in the flip brew, or whatever you want to call it, for lawyers to get their head wrapped around this, that if we go out with pitching and selling and convincing, that does feel bad if we go out to build relationships, asking, listening, learning, understanding, and helping. Well, that feels great. And so, why? Why are we following a system that makes us feel icky? Why aren’t we following a system that makes everybody win and feel good? And that’s, that’s sort of a hidden, a hidden treasure in what we work on, you know, day in and day out here.

 

Alex Karasik  [19:42]

Absolutely, and you mentioned about a system. I think that’s a great point, Steve, because not everyone’s going to have the same system, right? And I think one of the things that you look at it in terms of like where business development comes from, it could be different for different people. Some people, you know, for me it’s relationship based. Most of my clients, and the biggest client. I work with are people I know personally, or were referred to me by someone I trust. Other people are very good at pitching. Other people can do online advertising, are very good, you know, using certain, you know, digital marketing techniques, but people have their own different sources. And I think to your point, one of the things you can do, whether you’re an extrovert like me, who loves meeting people loves going out and talking to people. I genuinely like people. That’s just the way I am. I think everyone’s different,

 

Steve Fretzin  [20:27]

crazy like that.

 

Alex Karasik  [20:28]

I know, right? But some people don’t. Some people don’t like to be around people or deal with people, especially people they don’t know, and that’s fine. But one of the things I think that can transcend personalities is just the power of your network, and the way you build your network, you don’t have to always be vocal or call or see people or press people or do Zoom meetings or coffees all the time. Sure, that’s helpful to make touches with people that are like-minded and that want to do that, but just being kind to people and trying to, like you said, help other people. There’s a word that my dad uses a lot in the, in the Jewish religion, is called a mitzvah, right? It’s like doing a favor for someone, and I think that, you know, he.. I love how he always says, ‘I just want to do mitzvahs for other people, and they come back around. Yeah, you said you need help with something, I need a lawyer in this area, or vice versa. I’ve called you, Steve, and said, ‘Hey, do you know a lawyer that does this type of law in this, you know, county in Illinois, and you know your network, and you do those kind of favors for people without expecting anything in return. That is really, I think, truly one of the things that builds credibility and trust, because people want to help other people that are selfless, and I think those types of acts, good deeds for others, you know, ultimately comes back around in life, I really do.

 

Steve Fretzin  [21:44]

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Alex Karasik  [23:18]

Yeah, I think for a lot of the things I do in life, I mean, some of the big things I do are volunteer for my brother’s special organization, Special Olympics organization. I’m on a young professional board in Chicago. I think those things are things that have been fruitful for me. Another example would be my first client that I ever landed was, it was a friend, someone I knew was actually my buddy’s ex-girlfriend, but thankfully they broke up on amicable terms, amicable terms, and and I was always nice to her, and we got along, and and she’s a business owner in the Chicagoland area, and I, and she knew that I was big in these nonprofits, my brother’s Special Olympics, and also with a Salvation Army organization, she’s on a nonprofit that helps in the arts, you know, with folks with special needs, and they reached out with asking a favor, like had a question about a workplace employment situation, you’re just a hypothetical situation, and I tried to take the time, I listened to her for an hour, tried to do a mitzvah, wasn’t expecting anything in return, and you know, I think a few months later she had reached out and just thought my kind need of trying to listen to her and give her, you know, kind of a consultation on, you know, what she should do next in terms of, you know, next steps without actually trying to have, you know, bring on and form a client relationship and build business, you know, I did a consultation where I didn’t charge her for it or anything, and then she called back a few months later and said, you know, I got a class action lawsuit for unrelated situation. I remember you said you do this, can you help? And that was able to land my first class action case that way, and it was just by picking up the phone and listening to her vents about a difficult situation for an hour, you know, a few months back, and I built that. Trust by just simply her knowing I was involved with certain nonprofits, and she knew that, you know, I had a heart to try to help people, so those things kind of snowballed into a client, and I think that’s the point, is a lot of times don’t always look at every situation like opportunistically, but just be willing to help people, and eventually people, you’ll get that reputation, and people want to help you, and when they need help, you’re going to be the one to the lawyer they want to go to for those business opportunities.

 

Steve Fretzin  [25:28]

Yeah, well, so just to put it into perspective, too, when I’m looking at who I want to work with as a client, I’m looking at motivation to grow, I’m looking at integrity, and do I like this person, are they selfless in a giver? Do they have the mindset that’s going to say, you know, hey, I’m out there for you, I’m out there for others, and they tend to be the best business developers, they tend to be the most successful clients for me. So, you know, the jackass ego maniac that knows everything, probably not a great client for me, someone like you, and you know the classmates you went through, and you’re in the peer advisory, like, right, the greatest people, nicest people, everybody’s got the same, you know, kind of mindset, and so for me, my day in, day in, and day out, you know, couldn’t be happier, because I’m dealing with, you know, people like Alex, and people, you know, like Varint, and all these different people that are just fantastic,

 

Alex Karasik  [26:19]

yeah, and one of the things, Steve, is I think clients, I, in my experience, want to hire people who have characters that are aligned with their core values. I mean, looking at you, I, for example, you are speaking around the country at major, you know, Amla 100 law firms, you’re speaking at bar association conferences in New York and Arizona and around the country. What I love about you, or your LinkedIn post, going fishing with your son, because that’s who you really are. You’re a father, you’re someone that cares, and not only are you going to be there to hold the big fish with your son, but it’s again back to my quote about the preparation. You’re sitting on the boat with him for six hours before you catch the fish, you’re the one that’s teaching them how to fish, not just giving him a fish for a picture, and you go through the process, and that’s what I think clients want. A lot of clients are going through growing pains. They don’t usually call an appointment law attorney or defense attorney unless something happened. I mean, we love it when clients are calling us to responsibly and ethically implement an AI policy, so they don’t get sued on it, but a lot of times they’re calling us when stuff happened and it’s not perfect, and that’s what the point is. We’re here to help you through those growing pains, but who we are, who we are, both, you know, within the courtroom and at home, outside the courtroom, and the way that we carry ourselves and what our core principles are, the way you are with fishing with your son and with your family, the way I am with my brother, and doing things that you know, the value and bond that we have in that regard is the same thing I share with many of our clients, and I think they realize that when stuff hits the fan, they know that who you’re, what your core principles are, and how you’re going to guide them to the finish line is you’re going to do it the right way, and you’re going to do it in a way that puts their, you know, core values first.

 

Steve Fretzin  [27:56]

Yeah, I’ve got, I love that, and so true. And I’ve got two, two more questions for you, then we’ll wrap up, and I just, again, appreciate everything that you’re sharing. You know, there’s Alex Harasic, you know, before we met, and there’s Alex Krack now, who jumped all over me right when we got on this call to tell me about, you know, the multiple deals that you closed today, and all this great success, and I can’t be more proud of you, and I can’t, I can’t in my world, my, my self-worth, and feelings of results, and what drives me every day is you. It’s the people that I work with, and how you’re doing. I can’t get the way that I want to feel without you, without knowing that you’re doing well. So, maybe talk just for a moment about kind of where you were before, where you are now. I mean, your energy, your motive, and your confidence, you know, you’re standing up as straight as I’ve ever seen you, and I love it, and smiling. Right, talk to that, just for people who maybe just to get an idea of like the transformation.

 

Alex Karasik  [28:51]

Yeah, absolutely. I didn’t even know where I was when we started. I was just hoping that, you know, I know a lot of people, I’ve got friends from, you know, college and law school, and the business will come, and you know, just do a good job on other people’s clients, which is still important, but like I never really thought about what is my plan to develop business, and I think when you and I sat down, I realized I didn’t have a plan, and I needed to build a plan, and I looked at where I was, and I wasn’t thrilled about my numbers, I’m a competitive person, I came from a sports background, you know, played football, worked in football, played all sports growing up, and, like, I want to compete, and one of the things Pete Carroll said is always compete, and I looked at my numbers, and I go, am I really competing as hard as I can with myself and with the market to be the best business developer I can be, and it requires discipline, come into your class once a week, and not only coming to your class, but doing things outside of the class, allocating time for business development. One of the things that you mentioned, you know, to a lot of our classmates is, don’t run your life, don’t live your life running another man’s race, and it’s, you gotta build your own book of business. It’s going to require you to spend time to do your own things. A lot of the folks here are, you know. On listening to this podcast in your class, or big firms, great firms, wonderful institutional clients do a great job. Never let your clients down, never let your partners down, but you need to find time. It might be nights, it might be early mornings, it might be weekends, and that’s what I did. I had to find time and be purposeful about, and say, this is Alex’s time, my time to build business, and that’s what I did, and when I was purposeful about it, going out there, building my networks, finding out who are my strategic partners, and also, you know, to my point about mitzvahs, making introductions for others, sometimes those things have come back around, and I could be more proud to say that I’m working with you, Steve, I’ve doubled my book of business, you know, every year we’ve worked together, and I’m going to keep doing that, I’m very confident that the sky is the limit, and that Keith can even work with you and learn from other classmates and learn from the program and the process is something that is going to continue to happen. It’s a mindset, it’s a choice, and everyone can do it. And I sit here today, and I’m proud of where I am, but I’m never going to be content, because there’s always more opportunity to grow. I look at people like, you know, Jerry, who’s been doing it 40 years, and he’s still out there pushing hard. He doesn’t

 

Steve Fretzin  [31:06]

slow down for a minute. He’s just like, oh yeah, I did actually, did you know this many million, but I’m gonna get, he always has a number that’s so much higher than this massive number. There’s no ceiling,

 

Alex Karasik  [31:16]

and, and it’s, it’s not just about, you know, the numbers, but it’s just about the quality and the type of people you’ll get to work with, and, and I’m grateful for those opportunities. So, I’m definitely proud of where I’ve come, but I don’t ever lose sight of where I began, because that’s what you know drives me to grow, and, and to remember it. I started this journey from, you know, $0 to getting to where I am today, to be thankful for the process, and to continue to do the same things about being a giver, about, you know, serving other people in their core values, and doing things the right way. Yeah,

 

Steve Fretzin  [31:50]

well, we’re running, we’re running out of time, but I always ask this question at the end of every session. I have a feeling I know your answer, but what would you say is Alex’s big mistake?

 

Alex Karasik  [31:58]

Yeah, you know, I don’t have any regrets. I’m proud of my, you know, there are things I wish I’d done differently, you know, in life and career in general, but I, you know, one of the things in life is I try to do things without, you know, major regret. In other words, you know, just doing things the right way, so you never have to worry about that. What I wish I could have done differently as a younger lawyer, spending more time doing the things that I just talked about, you know, working with you, right? I think a lot of younger attorneys are so laser focused, which isn’t a bad thing, but laser focused on learning the law, getting their first job, and doing a good job on their first assignments, that they forget this is a marathon, not a sprint. If you want to have a 40 year career, yeah, the first five or 10 years it is important to be a great associate, and to learn the, you know, the law, and to learn how to navigate a firm, but doing the things now, whether you’re in college, law school, or even a junior associate, you know, becoming building a presence on LinkedIn, creating a core, you know, group of people that you can talk to, to count on among mentors, advisors, people to teach you business development, sharing, you know, the team, the publications of stuff you work on with your teammates. If you write a blog post or do an article or speak, going out there and building your network, now the power of the network is everything, and building that network early will allow you to seamlessly navigate into partnership, because you’ll be able to not only help refer work to other people that you can’t do, but it’ll come back around to you full circle. So, my advice to my younger self would be, start earlier and push harder, and be more purposeful about business development, starting from really when you’re in, in college, or even, yeah, it

 

Steve Fretzin  [33:38]

should be, it should be, I was gonna say college, I was gonna say law school is really, is really when lawyers should start thinking about developing their network and understanding that it’s not about who’s going to be who’s who’s going to make it or who’s not, that’s certainly something, but it’s looking to your left or right and realizing, hey, there’s some pretty smart people around here that are going to end up in general counsel roles or in other types of practice areas, and these are people that may be very important for my future. Also, want to mention that something didn’t exist two months ago that does now is this be the lawyer community. So, lawyers that are not ready for prime time the way that you were can get into a community, get supported, get mentorship, ask questions to rainmakers, get my content, go through courses, live events, things that are going to get them on the right path without a big investment, you know, of time, money, energy. There is a way, a way there now that didn’t exist months ago. So, I would encourage people to check out Be That lawyer.com/community Alex, awesome man. Let me take a moment. Thank our incredible sponsors, of course, Lex Reception, lawyer.com and Pimcon, the Personal Injury Mastermind Conference. conference coming up. People want to get in touch with you, they want to network with you, they loved everything you said, and they want to work with you. What are the best digits?

 

Alex Karasik  [34:50]

Absolutely, aw curassic at Dwayne morris.com that’s my last name, that’s spelled her, awkdwayne morris.com or LinkedIn, you just type in my. Name from Dwayne Morris. I’d love to hear from you, and particularly those people that are younger attorneys. There’s nothing that frankly gives me more excitement in this profession that really gets my juices going than mentoring. I love it. I’m grateful for the mentors I’ve had – you, Steve, my dad, Jerry, many others at Dwayne Morris and Seifarth, and I want to be that mentor for all those younger lawyers out there, and pay it forward, that’s what this is all about. So, particularly the younger lawyers who are hungry, just as I was, about taking the next step and realizing your potential, I’d love to hear from you.

 

Steve Fretzin  [35:34]

Now, listen, man, it’s this is just the beginning for us, right? We work together, and we get some great results, and then you know, the friendships I have with you and my other clients, they don’t go away just because we, you know, we may end something, you know, that never ends. And I’m just so proud of you. I’m proud of what you’ve accomplished. And to your point, I see you know nothing but, you know, a hockey stick for you, you know, going up as, as in your career, not only as a great lawyer, but also as, as someone who’s going to be a great generator of revenue and building your own base, so thank you so much, Alex, for coming on, sharing your story, and sharing kind of our story, honestly, of how we work together.

 

Alex Karasik  [36:08]

Absolutely, Steve. Well, I’m grateful to be here on your podcast, and thankful for your friendship and your mentorship, and look forward to continuing to work together and share everyone with you, because you’ve been a part of

 

Steve Fretzin  [36:20]

1. Yeah, well, awesome stuff, man. And hey, thank you everybody for hanging out with Alex and I for the last 30 and change. You know, great story, a great, great partnership, and a lot of things to take away, especially if you’re well, even if you’re like a, you know, 50 year old, you know, partner who’s not, you know, considering that business development is a thing you should be doing, you know, you maybe didn’t start early, but you just, but you know better, but no better time than the present for some of you folks. But the fact that you’re listening to the show, you know, should give you, you know, some encouragement that you’re on the right track. So, helping you be that lawyer, confident, organized, and that skilled rainmaker. Take care, everybody. Be safe and well. We’ll talk again soon.

 

Narrator  [37:01]

Thanks for listening to Be That Loyal, life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fretzin.com, for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode. Check out today’s show notes.