Lawyers are taught to practice law, not build a book of business—yet their careers depend on it. In this episode, discover how to reframe “sales” into problem-solving, develop sustainable BD habits, and turn everyday relationships into real opportunities.
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Lauren Paxton discuss:
- Mindset shifts for lawyer business development
- Reframing sales as solving client problems
- Getting out of the “friend zone” with potential clients
- Targeting ideal clients, industries, and strategic partners
- Building consistent BD habits and leveraging existing relationships
Key Takeaways:
- Business development becomes far more sustainable when it’s treated as a long-term journey of experimentation rather than a pass–fail test.
- Reframing “sales” as solving real problems makes outreach feel aligned with professional identity instead of pushy or manipulative.
- The most effective business development starts with clarity on where you want to end up in your career and then working backward to design the path.
- Narrow, specific targeting and curiosity-driven conversations make you memorable and referable in a way that “I do everything” never will.
- Consistency wins: small, habitual BD actions—especially with existing clients and colleagues—compound over time and smooth out the feast-or-famine roller coaster.
“Business development involves a mindset of: ‘this is a journey, and there’s no failure, there’s just figuring out all the different ways it doesn’t work until you fall into the one that does.” — Lauren Paxton
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About Lauren Paxton: Lauren Paxton is an executive coach and consultant, working primarily with lawyers and law firms.
Lauren’s work integrates mindset and neuroscience-based tools, working with her clients’ natural strengths to build the businesses and careers they envision.
Lauren’s coaching and consulting approach is informed by her experience as a former Chambers & Partners-ranked law firm partner, Assistant U.S. Attorney, Bar Association leader, and media contributor cited in Forbes, Newsweek, and CFO Magazine. Throughout her career, Lauren has been a trusted thought-partner to lawyers and executives, and she understands firsthand the ever-changing landscape her clients are navigating.
Connect with Lauren Paxton:
Website: https://www.laurenpaxton.com/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:00]
Hey everybody, before we get to the show, just want to remind you that the Be That Lawyer community is up and running and rock and rolling. We have a lot of amazing business developer and rainmaking attorneys in there. We’ve got incredible content, courses, live events, and all kinds of ways to help you to be that lawyer. Check it out today at Be That lawyer.com/community And other than that, please enjoy the show.
Narrator [00:29]
You’re listening to Be That Lawyer, life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [00:51]
Hey everybody, Steve Fretzin, and welcome to Be That Lawyer. So happy that you’re here. We’ve been rock and rolling for, I don’t know, over just about six years and 620 something episodes, and every single one is an opportunity for you as a lawyer to take something away, maybe even 345, things away that are going to help you to be that lawyer, confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. I’ve got a really lovely guest today, Lauren’s waiting in the wings. How you doing, Lauren?
Lauren Paxton [01:18]
Hi, Steve, great to be with you.
Steve Fretzin [01:19]
Yes, we’re gonna have some fun today. We’re gonna talk some shop, right?
Lauren Paxton [01:22]
Yes, looking forward
Steve Fretzin [01:24]
to it. And, of course, that doesn’t happen without a little bit of our quote of the show. So, Thomas Edison, I have not failed. I just found 10,000 ways that won’t work. So, welcome to Back to the Show, and welcome to the show, and tell us why you love that quote.
Lauren Paxton [01:39]
I love that quote because I think business development involves a mindset of like this is a journey and there’s no failure, there’s just figuring out all the different ways it doesn’t work until you fall into the one that does,
Steve Fretzin [01:50]
yeah, yeah, I’ve said and used the phrase failing forward quite a bit, and I really, you know, you just make, you make, you fail, you try, you know, hopefully you fail smaller, you make smaller mistakes, but no, sometimes that isn’t what’s going to do it. Then he also kind of steal some stuff from Tesla. Is that a thing you didn’t? I’m not
Lauren Paxton [02:09]
an expert. I, my lonely, is I scratched the surface with the quote. I was gonna
Steve Fretzin [02:13]
say he didn’t bring that up in the quote, did he, Thomas Edison? That also helps to have good ideas from people that I rip off. All right, well, good for him. Hey everybody. So, let’s get into it. We’ve got an incredible opportunity to learn today, so let’s go through it. We’ve got Laura Paxton here. She is the head of Paxton Coaching and Consulting, founder and executive coach. Give us a little background. How you came to be?
Lauren Paxton [02:37]
Sure, I’d love to. So, everything I do is very personal to me. Before getting into business development coaching, I was a law firm partner. I built a book of business. I was at a well-respected firm in the New York area, running the employment practice, doing litigation investigations, and I think I’ve been through many of the things my clients are going through. I came out of government as a federal prosecutor already 10 years into practice with zero business, so I had the experience of what it’s like to go from zero to something, and then sort of partway through figuring out, okay, I’m building some business, what do I want this to look like, and then ultimately getting to a place where my pain points were around how can I delegate more effectively, so I can raise the ceiling on what it can bring in? So, after leaving practice and doing some coach training, right now I spend my time coaching lawyers one on one, and also doing trainings and workshops.
Steve Fretzin [03:33]
Yeah, really, really cool. And what do you see is right now? I mean, it’s maybe different than even a couple years ago. Is what are you seeing as the number, the top challenges that lawyers are having around business development? Is it mindset? Is it lack of skills? Is it.. I know it’s a combination, but what’s your take?
Lauren Paxton [03:49]
Yeah, so by the time folks find me, because I don’t have a traditional background like you do, with so much thought leadership out there, and I just.. I have to acknowledge you for everything you’re putting out there, was very helpful to me when I was building a book of business, not only this podcast, but you know, all of the thought leadership you put out there, so much great resources that you’re, you’ve got available for folks. I think by the time people come to me, what they’re looking for is help with a little bit more of the mindset keys, so maybe it’s the fact that they’ve tried a lot of things and nothing seems to be working, or they’re stuck in a little bit of an identity, a gap where they feel like this just isn’t for me, but I know I still need to do it. Think something about me having done it before helps people feel that trust to just open up and say, okay, I tried everything else, you know what could I do here?
Steve Fretzin [04:37]
Yeah, so let’s talk about mindset, because I think everything else that we talk about today is going to reflect back to what someone’s mindset. So, look, you go to law school to learn the law, not to do business development. We get it now. You’re three, five, or five plus years in, and they’re like, oh yeah, you want to have your own life, you want to have control, freedom, independence. By the way, you also need to go get your own clients and. I think lawyers like, well, that’s not what I signed up for. So, what are you working with? What’s a tip or an idea by the mindset that helps lawyers to get into a frame that that’s productive?
Lauren Paxton [05:11]
Yeah, that’s a great question. Think something that was helpful to me when I was practicing and I had coaching was understanding that our prefrontal cortex, that part of the brain that does the really hard work, like handles novel ideas, processes judgment and very high functioning, really only has limited capacity, and that’s just a human thing. No matter who you are, there’s only so much of that really hard brain work you can do in a given day. So, in addition to everything lawyers do when they’re exactly that moment, that five 710 year mark, working in business development, which for often for people is new at something they haven’t done before, maybe they don’t see as particularly complex, but it certainly is new. How can we leave mental capacity for that? So, a lot of things are really nuts and bolts, like when what time of day do you do your business development? Are you keeping it for weekends or late afternoons when you find a minute at a time, or can we have a habit of doing it like 10 minutes every couple mornings? The other thing I’m a fan of is breaking it up: have a plan one day, execute it the next day, so you’re not doing all of the mental labor business development in the same day that you’re doing all your hard work of being a lawyer,
Steve Fretzin [06:22]
but before you even get to that, you’ve got to have us like internal conversation, or even maybe a chat with a mentor about how you feel about business development and the dirtiness of the word sales and selling, and I, you know, I’m with the legal community on this, I hate selling in sales. I hate being sold to, and so the mindset has to be right for them to, you know, even consider putting it in their calendar. How do they flip the switch on that, or is it more of a, an overtime situation?
Lauren Paxton [06:53]
Yeah, well, I’m going to give you credit for this. I love how you put it when you talk about karma, sort of climbing Mount Karma. I know that’s a program you put out there, so well done. Giving folks a reframe, so they can feel good about the work they’re doing, is so important. So, I’ll give you a couple I use that tend to be helpful when someone’s preparing for a networking event, or going to a conference, or an all firm meeting, and they’re intimidated, like I’m not a person who works the room. Something I’ll throw out there is, let’s call this research. What do you want to learn? Who do you want to talk to? What would be more interesting to you? Like, own it and make it interesting to you. So, your goal is to go around not impressing people, but learning what are the interesting problems you could potentially solve in the future, or collaborate on. Another way I look at it is just recognizing how social our brains are, and like, social rejection can be like real pain. Like, let’s minimize how much we’re going out on a limb and asking for business till we feel really comfortable that we could handle it. And this is a good client for us. So, I’m always a fan of, like, do the research, be curious, find out what the issues are before you make that ask.
Steve Fretzin [07:58]
Yeah, I love it. Act like a detective, like, just pretend you’re a detective, and you’re going ironing. What are you detecting? We’re detecting good people, or you’re detecting people with problems, or you’re detecting someone that would like to have lunch with you tomorrow, or whatever it might be. Whatever you’re detecting, it’s kind of a nice way to reframe it. But you, you led me there. So, thank you. One other thing I would do that may or may not like be real, I guess. You just have to kind of go with me at it. Is change the word sales into solve, because if I take 10 lawyers or 100 lawyers and I put them in a room and I say raise your hand if you like to solve problems, every single hand goes up. Like that is number one job for lawyers is solving problems, and I think they may not understand 100% that what sales is, because they’re so used to it’s selling and pushing and convincing and, and right, and beating a dead horse, and all of that. When I think of sales, I think of solving, so you have a problem of you don’t have a business development plan, or you don’t have a good mindset, or you’re not comfortable at conferences, or networking events, those are problems that I can help you resolve. Right? Do I have to sell you my services? No, I’d rather you buy my services. So, let’s look at them as solutions, not sales. And that reframe might be, in addition to yours, some really, really good insights.
Lauren Paxton [09:19]
That’s a great refrain. You know, this is reminding me of folks I work with who say, “Look, my neighbor is general counsel, is a big company. We’re friends, we spend time together, but I could never mix business and personal. I would never make an ask for visits. But if your neighbor, like, needed help shoveling their walkway, or needed, you know, someone to help with the trash, and they go on vacation, you’d say yes. So, what’s the difference? I think sometimes the work, honestly, and I’m curious that your perspective is making folks see the value in what they have to offer, like if they need help and it’s exactly what you do, make sure they know.
Steve Fretzin [09:53]
Yeah, so I, I’m, you know, in this made-up example to give you, I’m the top brain surgeon in the world, nobody. Saves more lives than me, and you’re not gonna send your cousin to me, who has a brain tumor. Of course, you want to send your cousin to me. No one’s better than me at that. And I think lawyers need to understand how valuable they are, and how good they are at what they do, and how that can help solve problems. But then also, you know, maybe there’s a great, a great segues, like, how do you get out of the friend zone, and I put the little, you know, air quotes in the friend zone, because people know GCS and CEOs, and people that could, but they’re so wrapped up in that’s my neighbor, or that’s my friend, they don’t know how to transition over, and I was talking to a woman, client of mine, going, it’s gonna be seven eight years ago, and she was going to these conferences and meeting with, like, the head GCS of all these major companies. All of them were her good friends. None of them gave her a lick of business, and we really worked on how to turn that corner. What’s your take on the friend zone?
Lauren Paxton [10:54]
Yeah, that’s a huge one. I think two things come up for me. One is not every friend is going to be your client, right? I mean, my last couple years of practice, I had really good friends, like close friends who were GCS of big companies. I knew I was never going to be the right fit for them, I wasn’t going to be the right type of firm, the right type of work, so that was never going to come my way. I had other friends, as soon as I was in a position to help, they knew they could pick up the phone and call me any crazy thing, like the thing the other law firms, they’re not sure if they’re giving them the right advice, they’d call me. So, a lot is just knowing that you’re not going to win them
Lauren Paxton [11:27]
all,
Lauren Paxton [11:27]
but the ones we feel like this is a really good fit,
Lauren Paxton [11:30]
and maybe a broken record, but I say, like, lead with curiosity. Next time you’re chatting, what’s on your plate? Like, what are the big things? Or do a little research. Oh, I hear AI is huge in this that other part of your business. How are you guys dealing with that? And be genuine, be interested.
Steve Fretzin [11:46]
Yeah, back to the detective, right? Interested detective, you know, maybe a little bit of therapy, let people talk, right? And it’s a good thing for a friend to do. And also, you know what, you might learn something. You might learn that their current firm is, you know, jerking them around, and they’re miserable, or in that they they’re actually looking for someone else, and it’s right in your sweet spot, or what your firm does, so you just never know. It’s just it’s not about selling again. It comes back to really asking and learning and understanding, which is where really where we want to be in business development, more than the hard stuff. Let’s transition. So another thing I hear is all right, so I get it. I have to be in business development, it’s a part of my career, and how I’m going to get ahead. Where do I start? How do I, you know, how do I even go on the right path? I could just spin my wheels, you know, going after a ton of conferences or networking or whatever. What is your take on how lawyers need to get started on BD?
Lauren Paxton [12:44]
Yeah, so often what I like to start with is where do you want to end up, because I often find that not everyone has a clear picture of that. It’s a combination of, well, I know I have to do more, not to do better. My firm’s telling me it’s not enough, but where do you actually want to end up? Do you want to be the type of law firm partner that has teams of people doing all your work, and you’re spending your days networking with clients? Do you want to be the type of law firm partner that’s just really high touch with a handful of your own clients, or do you want to be like special teams that jumps in for a niche issue, and your goal is to help other, you know, your partners with their client relationships, so really kind of start with like what would be the best fit for you, and then work backwards. So, if it’s the special teams niche person, then just as much of your business development is going to be spent getting to know your partners and their needs and their clients’ needs, and continuing to work on your craft. If you’re a person who just wants to be high level rainmaker, you know, managing other people. You got to start building your team while you’re building your business. So, I like flashing forward to the end, so we could figure out what the steps are between.
Steve Fretzin [13:52]
Yeah, but you weren’t kind of.. yeah, I guess you work backwards a little bit. What do you want, and then work backwards from there? Yeah.
Lauren Paxton [13:56]
Okay. Yeah,
Steve Fretzin [13:58]
I like it. I like it getting into the nitty gritty, you and I back and forth a little bit. Once you understand what your practice is, what you enjoy, where the market says there’s business, hopefully have all that already. Maybe then it’s really about targeting, right? Like, you’re not like it drives me nuts when I go to a networking event and people like, well, anybody can refer, I’m a lawyer, anybody can refer me, right? And it’s like, yes, but that’s not helpful, like if you’re known for nothing, right? So, what is your take on how lawyers need to be very specific about targeting who they want to meet and why?
Lauren Paxton [14:32]
Yeah, so here’s another place where I think a reframe is helpful, and this is very consistent with, I think, your perspective, which we’re not here to sell, not here to talk about you, are, but you can offer some conversation openers. So, for example, Commonwealth, I’m a commercial litigator, I can handle any commercial litigation that does nothing to stand out in other people’s minds, has nothing for you to come top of mind, people think of you, but if you say I’m a commercial litigator, I do commercial litigation right now, I just. A handful of these owner disputes, where restrictive covenants are at issue. It’s really interesting. The order to show cause work is fast-paced. Now you’re giving someone a little something to hang on to. They have an order to show cause and an owner dispute, they’ll think of you. Also, they might think of you for other things just because you made yourself interesting. So this person is not saying I’m great at this, they’re saying I enjoy it,
Steve Fretzin [15:23]
and this is what I’ve seen, this is what I’m seeing, this is what I’m doing, I’m spending my time. I would also throw in pain points, so you know, when I do an infomercial in front of a group of lawyers, and I say something like, you know, lawyers are typically coming to me when they’re, you know, frustrated with, you know, their BD efforts, they’re just all over the place, and they feel like a hamster on a wheel, just running as fast as they can, and I just don’t know how to get off and do it with, you know, a system and process and language and things that are proven effective, and I can see the eyes of the lawyers in the room widen because they’re like, is he talking about now, I’m not talking about you, but I, of course, I’m talking about you, talking about you without talking about you, I didn’t say I didn’t, you say you all are having these problems, right? I just said people come to me when, so I think that that’s another example of how we can help people target, like, okay, so if I run into someone with that problem, I’m gonna think of you, Lauren, because that’s something I heard you say you resolve,
Lauren Paxton [16:21]
right?
Steve Fretzin [16:21]
Or see,
Lauren Paxton [16:22]
that’d be right. right, exactly right. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [16:27]
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Lauren Paxton [19:03]
Yeah, yeah, that’s a great question. I don’t have a very simple answer for it, because I find there’s a combination of books reaching out to me just because they already know me, and they know me as someone they’ve had trusted conversations with in the past, and they think I probably have something to offer, at least, would be very like patient and thoughtful in talking to them, and folks who are just finding me because of something in my background stands out. I think really what it comes down to is whether folks are at small farms or big firms, it’s just they’re really motivated, right, because I think for folks who find, let’s say, their mentor is the same personality as them and is generous with their time, they have sort of a pattern to follow, but folks I work with often feel like I have a mentor, but they are ex-personality, maybe total rainmaker, extrovert, works a room, that’s not me, so How do I ever get there and. They just need a different strategy, but they’re motivated enough, because it’s so important to their career to get there.
Steve Fretzin [20:05]
Yep, yep. So, if you’re out networking and you’re just out going to any event, any conference, meeting people, and you’re gonna, you know, waste a lot of time, that, and then, of course, there could be coffees and lunches and dinners and drinks and all these things happening. So, when I talk about targeting, I think number one is you want to know who’s your best potential client and try to get an audience with them. Number two, and this is maybe for some lawyers even more important, is who’s the connectors, is it who are the strategic partners? So I don’t know, like for us it could be legal recruiters, right? For us it could be legal marketing agencies, it could be other folks, if you’re an employment attorney, right, on the defense side, yeah, we know that HR and GCS are maybe your targets for business, but who are the people that work around in the same world that could refer you?
Lauren Paxton [20:55]
Yeah, that’s interesting. My sense is I wouldn’t say it’s taboo, but I think people asking around for a coach is not the most common conversation topic. I may think it’s like one degree away from asking for a therapist, like who have you worked with, who’s really good, and so I don’t see it being a common topic of conversation in sort of broad circles, but in close circles of trust, it’s definitely an objective conversation. So, for example, like in my backyard, there’s New Jersey Women Lawyers Association, wonderful association, people are there to help one another out, and so that’s a place where if I do a presentation for a group, my name is going to be on everyone’s lips who attended it. So I think finding those networks where they’re really trusted groups tend to be beneficial, at least from my experience.
Steve Fretzin [21:44]
Yeah, so find networking groups and network with people who are either potential clients for you or potential connectors for you, not everyone everywhere. And I think those targets aren’t always clear to the lawyers that are looking to achieve a business development, so they fall back on what people tell them they should do, or where they think they should go, but that may not. Some it says they might be speaking to a group of people that are their competitors, which might be okay. It also might be, you know, you’re just giving away all your best secrets to people who are gonna, you know, not never send you anything. So you’re
Lauren Paxton [22:19]
so right about that, you know, I can, I can, you know, count a number of times where I get to know someone in the early business development success they’ve had, and it’s all been working with a particular type of client, particular industry, but they’re still going to, like, their practice group annual conferences, like, why aren’t you going to that industry, there’s something that you’re doing that works really well, and you have a knack for it, like, go find more of those people.
Steve Fretzin [22:45]
Yeah. Well, I think also we need to look at, do we even need to go out networking, and I think most people do. But let’s say, you know, you’re an IP attorney, and you have, you know, 400 clients that you’ve never asked for introductions or referrals or cross marketing or anything like, why are you going out and meeting strangers at a conference when you have all these clients who think you’re great and smart and have solved problems for them, and you’ve never sat down and just worked through, like, how to get more business from them, cross market with them, referrals from them. Most lawyers would say that’s because I don’t know how to do that, right, that’s uncomfortable for me, but if you can learn that from Lauren and myself or other coaches or books or whatever, well, then then you’re going to save yourself a lot of time. What’s your take?
Lauren Paxton [23:31]
Absolutely, 100% and I would expand that to other lawyers, other lawyers inside your firm. I mean, get your reps in talking about your elevator pitch and your personal brand, and how you describe yourself with sort of low-stakes, trusted folks who can maybe even give you some feedback. I mean, for many lawyers, particularly in the larger firms with very big institutional clients, business development for them means expanding the scope of services that a firm offers a particular client. You don’t need to go to networking events, it’s all right there, you just got to work on how you’re working
Steve Fretzin [24:03]
- Yeah, I just had a coaching call, I don’t know, an hour ago, and this guy’s super busy, and you know, his capacity to grow his book is there, but he’s going to have to put to your point, what you said earlier, he’s have to put a team in place, he’s going to have to really work to train and you know be able to delegate properly, and the stop gap that we don’t, we talked about right at the end of our coaching call was cross marketing, that he, he isn’t asking and looking enough for the, you know, he’s in commercial real estate, but it could be the litigation, it could be the other transactional work, it could be, you know, the M and A, and the stuff that he doesn’t do, but his firm is amazing at doing, and so you know, having some pointed questions, being that detective, and trying to figure out, look, you may not have real estate for another five to 10 years, but you’ve got more people problems than you know what to do with, and the firm you’re working with sucks, like, we should, you know, maybe we want to, you know, take that further.
Lauren Paxton [24:58]
Yeah, that’s such a great point. Right, especially if you talk about, like, you may not have success bringing exactly what you want for another five to 10 years, doesn’t mean you can’t do, you know, nothing in between.
Steve Fretzin [25:07]
Yeah, just, you know, and then you don’t have to bill all those hours, but you certainly get the credit for it, and, and build your book on that, and you maintain the relationship, but you know, again, someone else is, you know, helping make you money, hopefully you’re also sharing a little credit with them to be a nice person.
Speaker 2 [25:23]
Yeah,
Steve Fretzin [25:24]
we’ll do that.
Lauren Paxton [25:24]
Yeah, look, having a little successes along the way can really make a difference. I think the longer someone goes in business development efforts without feeling like they’re making progress, the more likely it is to be sort of like such a chore. Nurse, you bring in a small matter here and there for a colleague at something, you know, it is
Steve Fretzin [25:43]
rising tide lifts all boats, as they say.
Lauren Paxton [25:45]
Exactly,
Steve Fretzin [25:47]
wrapping up, we’ve got a couple more questions. You started off this entire conversation with sharing, you know, putting it in your calendar, and is it a little bit each day, is it a little bit each week, and all that. One of the biggest challenges lawyers have is that roller coaster of they’re busy and they’re doing BD, they’re getting busy, and then they stop doing it because they’re busy, and then they tank, and then they got to build it back up, and that roller coaster ride isn’t necessarily fun. What’s one or two tips that you would give to help lawyers stay consistent with their BD?
Lauren Paxton [26:19]
Yeah, the bet, the best tip I would give is, make it a habit, so it doesn’t feel like, oh, I have to do business development today, or this week, or next month. I mean, there may be opportunities you’ll say yes to that involve a bigger lift. You’re going to present on a CLE and a topic you haven’t dealt with recently. Yeah, that might be a lot of time, but the everyday incremental things, the things that you and I know, are what adds up to success. Make that a habit, just like you’re not going to not brush your teeth when you have a trial, right? Spend the 10 minutes sending out the outreach, keep things going, you know. Best case scenario is you build those relationships, they don’t require a whole lot of work. Something made me think of you today, send a meme or a text, and like now you’ve got a warm relationship with a client, because you’re investing in it over time. That’s really how trust is built, anyway.
Steve Fretzin [27:04]
Yeah, I love that. Developing habits and making it a part of your part of your routine really important. I also like the idea of similar to like creating content and repurposing. You have a relationship that relationship can give you business, that relationship can cross market, that relationship can make introductions to other general counsels and CEOs, right? Maybe they give you a LinkedIn review. That LinkedIn review can be put on your website, it can be put on social media, like there’s all these benefits from not just like, “Oh, I met with someone for lunch, we had a nice lunch, and that was the end of it. Like, if that’s what you’re doing, and you’re just having lots of great lunches and continue to build relationship, but nothing solid is coming out of it. Then I think the other part of habit is that you have to develop skills and language and processes to get more out of these relationships. And by the way, to Karma Mountain, how are you adding a lot of value for others? How are you setting yourself up to be thoughtful and help others and make sure that you’re giving first, because that’s gonna make them feel, you know, obliged to want to say, at least say to you, How can I help you? And if they don’t, they don’t, but like that’s a pretty natural response when someone you know refers or does something solid for somebody.
Lauren Paxton [28:16]
100% at the end of the day, these are human relationships, even if you’re representing a big company, there’s a human on the other side that you’re working with, and odds are they’re going through some big stuff, some things that matter to their company, maybe matters to their job, the outcome of what you’re working on, and making sure there’s warmth and trust is so important.
Steve Fretzin [28:34]
Yeah, I love it. I love it. All right, well, we’re wrapping up. Here’s the big question: What’s Lauren’s big mistake?
Lauren Paxton [28:38]
So I think for too long I hung on to just keep trying even if things aren’t working, I think that was a motto that got me through early years of practice, like just keep researching till you find that one case that the partner says exists, even though you can’t find it, and stay up all night, and and I think applying that to higher level work further my career, but it was business development, just going after the same prospect, even though it was obvious it was not going to work out, or like continuing to, you know, try to manage and associate in a certain way. I just have to try harder. The truth is taking a step back, trying to see a different perspective. Honestly, working with coaches, I won’t say work smarter than harder, because that’s controversial, but there is a time when you have to see the forest from the trees,
Steve Fretzin [29:21]
yeah, yeah. I love that. It’s there’s a saying, and the people have listened to the show, have heard this before, and it’s not something I came up with. It’s the saying, practice makes perfect, and then the better one is perfect, practice makes perfect. So you’re just practicing, or you’re going after the same things over and over, and it’s not working well, because you haven’t made an improvement, right? So you know you’re having the same lunch over and over, you’re not getting anything out of it. Well, here the next lunch you go on, ask one more question, right? Right? Or provide some value to the other person to get the reciprocation response. Do something different, don’t just go five years. Have lunches, and without seeing much out of it. Right,
Lauren Paxton [30:03]
you’re so right. You’re so right. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [30:05]
Well, oh, you tell my teenager he’s interested in knowing if his father’s all right. Now it’s been great having him home for the summer. I’ll tell you, he’s a different guy. I’ve spent six years picking on this kid. He’s never heard an episode. I pick on this kid relentlessly on this show, and eventually he’ll figure out and be mad at me, but he came back. He’s incredibly, he’s been great having him home so well, very cool. So wonderful having you. Let’s take a moment. Thank our incredible sponsors, of course, Alex Reception. Do not answer your own phone, get someone professional to do it for you, day or night, and make sure you don’t miss any calls. Pim con the top PI retreat of the season. It’s coming up in October. You’re going to want to go to that if you’re a PI attorney, not to be missed. And of course, lawyer.com a great directory to check out and find out other lawyers to network with or to refer Lauren. People want to get in touch with you. They’re looking for our killer coach. What’s the what are the digits,
Lauren Paxton [31:01]
all right? So, my website’s the best way to do it. It’s just my name, Lauren paxton.com and I’m also active on LinkedIn.
Steve Fretzin [31:07]
There we go. All right. Well, I appreciate you coming on the show, and kind of hanging out with me, and doing a little BD ping pong. And I think this was incredibly helpful. Again, I think I said one or two takeaways. There’s probably between the two of us, maybe a half a dozen or more. So, for the folks listening, hopefully you guys got a lot out of it. And let’s make sure that we keep each other in loop. I’d love referring to other coaches. I love collaborating with other coaches, and there’s.. there’s more. You know, you know who our competition is. Lauren Lawyer apathy, lawyers that don’t do jack, they just keep billing hours and hope that the world’s going to be okay. That’s not who we’re working with. Yeah, but I think there’s, there’s too many lawyers for us, and more to come. But anyway, I appreciate you, and I appreciate you coming on the show, and sharing your wisdom.
Lauren Paxton [31:53]
Thanks so much for having me. I really, really appreciate
Steve Fretzin [31:56]
- My pleasure as well. And thank you, everybody, for hanging out with Laura and I for the last 30. Again, you know, helping you every single week, twice a week, to be that lawyer. Also, check out Future Rainmakers, that’s a different show, but again, really, really good. Just to give you guys the advice you need on a regular basis, I do bring in some of my clients to kind of share their experiences, which is nice to just hear from other lawyers and what they’re doing, how we work together. So check that out, and it will help you to be that lawyer, confident, organized, and that skilled rainmaker. Take care, be safe, and well, and we’ll talk again very soon.
Narrator [32:32]
Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer: Life-Changing Strategies and Resources for Growing a Successful Law Practice. Visit Steve’s website, fretzin.com, for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.
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